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Toronto manhandled in Motor City

MICHAEL GRANGE

From Monday's Globe and Mail

Latest comment posted at 7:38 PM EST 14/04/08

Raptors want to win last two games to be guaranteed sixth seed in playoffs ...Read the full article

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  1. Bear Bull from United States writes: So, Detroit closed the game by only using their backups. Be realistic, Andrea played like sh1t. He could not do anything, offensively or defensively, and Raptors will go nowhere. What you saw Rasho is going to be the same person in playoffs. Look like Sam is panic and fighting for his job. Not playing Andrea heavy minutes is stupid, and selfish coaching. Sam's rotation pattern has no ration at all. Toronto is a jump-shooting team, and current rotation yields no offensive rebound. See, what percentage of shooting can make you win a playoffs game? At least 60%? Can you accomplish that? Fire Sam Mitchell immediately.
  2. andy c from Canada writes: even down 6 for most of the 4th quarter i really didn't have any doubt the pistons would take care of business. what's troubling is that the piston starters played limited mins and didn't play a lick down the stretch. raps better take care of business the last two games or they dont stand a chance against the pistons in the playoffs.
  3. HC Bargs from Toronto, Canada writes: The Raps don't stand a chance against anyone in the playoffs this year. They don't rebound and they don't defend. Everyone's talking that they will beat the Magic...well, unless they smarten up they'll be gone very quickly.

    And while I've been a supporter of Sam Mitchell for the most part, I think his time is up. He has not utilized Bargnani well at all this year and I think some of the blame for his poor play should be place on the coach. If I'm BC, I'd give Bargnani one more chance next year and if still nothing by the trade deadline try to deal him.
  4. albert strauss from Toronto,Ontario, Canada writes: Larry :- I dont think you are giving the fans our moneys worth keeping that incompetent Mitchell in charge of floor operations. For that matter you are depreciating your own investment. Personally I am renewing for next year but I am passing on the playoffs. I dont need to pay a fortune to watch jump shooters turn their backs on rebounds. I was taught this was a no-no ingrade 9 high school in Toronto no less and heard it thro 9 more years of organized ball. The footwork on the defence would do a waltzmaster proud. There is something underlyingly wrong when pro players cannot follow instructions to conduct an elementary man to man defence. It looks like they are collectively sending a message which management is not receiving by their diffidence in all elementary respects. I suspect that message is 'Get us a decent coach'. Players know better than anyone.
  5. Marc Chasseur from Snowdon, QC, Canada writes: I like what Van Gundy said during the broadcast - Boston and Detroit should simply play a best of 21 to see who represents the conference in the finals.
  6. Roger S from Canada writes: This game only suggested Raptors are not ready. They don't even stand a chance against Postons if they play the same way. The changes must be made in summer. At least, Sam Mitchell and TJ Ford should let go. Rebound men must be brought in. I am rather disappointed about Andrea Bargnani. Sure, Sam sucks at coaching and didn't provide much help, but I really saw he didn't try hard either. I think he got no idea about what is defense. TJ-Charlie V trade and Andrea draft at No 1 are two big mistakes BC made so far.
  7. Roger S from Canada writes: This game only suggested Raptors are not ready. They don't even stand a chance against Postons if they play the same way. The changes must be made in summer. At least, Sam Mitchell and TJ Ford should let go. Rebound men must be brought in.

    I am rather disappointed about Andrea Bargnani. Sure, Sam sucks at coaching and didn't provide much help, but I really saw he didn't try hard either. I think he got no idea about what is defense.

    TJ-Charlie V trade and Andrea draft at No 1 are two big mistakes BC made so far.
  8. Roger S from Canada writes: Next year Andrea will make 5M, Kapono 5M, Gabajosa 4.8M and TJ 8M. Those under-performer, non-performer and negative performer will drag Raptors into abyss if BC does not make changes.
  9. Uncle Elmer from Canada writes: Recipe for Raptor success in the playoffs:

    1. Some how get the 6th seed.
    2. Hope Orlando and everyone else gets bird flu.
    3. Win championship.

    I know that Chuck and Leo believe!
  10. A V from Toronto, Canada writes: This game is going to give Dave Feschuk plenty to b*tch about...
  11. M Spiker from Ottawa, Canada writes: Look on the bright side...you didn't have to listen Chuckie Cheese call the game.
  12. M Spiker from Ottawa, Canada writes: Roger S: don't forget the $7.5M for Hump, Maceo, and Joey.

    I'd add Rasho's $8.4M to BC's to-be-overpaid list but since he has actually played over the last few weeks the BC apologists will get upset (how quickly you forget the 40 games this season he was a no-show)/
  13. Roger S from Canada writes: Yeah, those bunch of bench warmers should also be counted. Rasho situation suggests how stupid Sam's coaching is. Raptors have played far from their potential under Sam Mitchell. For past two years, this guy only believes three things--- one: Bosh is the man. two: TJ is the puppet. three: all other players are busted. All of Raptors' problems, including TJ Ford, are stemming from him.
  14. Marcus M from Vancouver, Canada writes: M Spiker: Just be happy the Raptors aren't like the Hornets.

    Arvydas Macijauskas, Hilton Armstrong & Rasual Butler = 7.7 Mil!!!
    Ha! What a bunch of Idiots! Jeff Bower should be fired immediately!
    The Hornets are going nowhere! Thier GM is worse than ours!

    oh and to me it looks like Maceo, Joey and Hump = 5.9 Mil this year.
  15. Hap Stokes from Canada writes: Wow!
  16. M Spiker from Ottawa, Canada writes: Marcus: you are forgetting the raises they are due for their 2007/08 performance and contribution to the team -- $7.5M of wasted cap room next year.

    The worst part is they are stuck with Joey for 2 more years and Hump till 2011.
  17. Big Cayman from South Toronto, Canada writes: OMG, I almost agree with Roger, except for the Sam part, and excluding the TJ Jose debate. So finally we hear from Gherardini! Unfortunately its in a Marketing commercial to hawk his cheesy Italian trip in a contest. It almost feel like a ploy to keep take the spotlight off how poorly Bargs has performed all year, I hope I win ;) Shouldn't he be out right now recruiting real talent instead fleecing Raps fans with bogus Euros? Spiker you are correct Rasho was a no show for the first 50 games, some will say Bargs got his minutes and that's why however that change didn't take place at the beginning of the season and Rasho had plenty of opportunities to contribute. I would have no problem with keeping him, but with less pay and coming off the bench. My trade package would include Gherardini, Colangelo and Swirsky. See now European soccer leagues have it right, you can trade to a different federated league all together, so they could end up hopefully on another continent.
  18. andy c from Canada writes: so the raps go from playing the best team in the east (i think detroit can beat boston in a playoff series) to the worst team in the east in a back to back. the raps better take care of business this game as miami should be ashamed of the current roster they are putting out on the court. for all the talk of getting the six seed i dont think a healthy raptors squad has beaten a healthy magic squad this season.....
  19. Marcus M from Vancouver, Canada writes: I guess what I was saying is that the guys at the end of the bench don't really matter. I don't think you win championships with the 9th,10th and 11th guys off the bench. I won't judge BC based on guys who have no impact but on the guys who do actually play. We should be judging him on the guys who get the majority of the playing time like Bosh, Delfino, etc. I do think they need one more go to scorer and I think BC will fix this team at the draft.
  20. M Spiker from Ottawa, Canada writes: Marcus: unfortunately the guys on the end of this bench suck up way to much of their salary cap. There is $9M in deadwood on this roster (and it looks like at least $7.5M next year) -- guys who just don't play. Add in the guys who might show up on a given night (JK, CD, AB, RN) and this team is spending an awful lot of cap for a handful of every day players.

    The successful teams stuff their roster with minimum salary guys. There are worse teams than the Barneys for this (the Knicks) but BC is not doing a good job managing this aspect of the team. I would accept the overpaying for 7-12 if this was a deep team but they are basically playing 6-7 guys a night and DNP'ng 3 (the remainder get garbage minutes). I've typed it before but look at how Dumars has DET's salaries structured for an example of how it's done (or BOS).
  21. Toby Maloney from Canada writes: How can any objective viewer balme Bargnani's performance on Sam Mitchell? Might as well say the Liberals did it because they were in power when Bargnani was drafted.

    Anyway, it's about what to do next. Why keep an underperforming 4-5 who can't rebound to save his soul, is a turnstile inside the key, a Walmart greeter on the perimeter, and now can't shoot consistently? He isn't developing, he's deteriorating, and for his sake, and the Raptors, he needs to find a different team with a different role where he can be successful.

    All those salaries otehrs posters mention above add up to an opportunity. Raptors have assembled some assets that can be traded, including Bargnani and three or four other talented and potentially talented players that don't fit with the core of the team, in order to get a couple of starters including a lock down defender-rebounder or a bona fide slasher-scorer.

    The object isn't to blow everything on one or two years, (Pleae see http://www.nba.com/heat/ for the moral of that story) but to build a franchise that is consistently competitive.
  22. One For All All For One from Canada writes: Spiker - to rate how Dumars pays bench players, please see:
    Nazr Mohamed
    Brezec/Dixon

    The pistions just got bailed out by a silly trade by the bobcats - they've been just as guilty as anyone. The plan seems to be to fill up the gaps with role players and make a major move in the next season.

    If you factor in the deal we get on Jamario Moon, and Anthony Parker, then our salary situation is fine. You can just automatically sign super star players just because you have the cap room - his home team will always be able to offer a better contract. You need to show that the team has potential, or have assets for a trade.

    Its ironic that you consider yourself a fan, but you seem far more caught up in MLSE making a big profit than attracting quality players.
  23. M Spiker from Ottawa, Canada writes: One: do some f'in research.

    DET's 7 subs that kicked butt yesterday make around $10.5M (about the same as the Barney's who didn't dress or play). If you drop Johnson and Hunter who make TOR-sub money and contribute about as well their 2nd team makes only $5M. BC's 4 subs from yesterday make $14.5.

    Parker isn't a bargain he makes $4.3M which would make him the 6th highest paid player on DET. TOR gets fair value for Parker's performance (his salary and rankings are in line). The same can't be said for anybody but CB, JC, and JM.

    Moon is a bargain (not as good as Maxiell though) but hey in BC's case it's better to be lucky than good.

    I could care less about the finances of MLSE. But the reality is cap management matters in the NBA. I do agree with the hard cap they have put on BC (they won't pay the luxury tax). He just isn't doing a great job of managing to his budget.
  24. HC Bargs from Toronto, Canada writes: Let's wait and see how Colangelo manages his cap and team in the off-season. I think, all things considered, he's done a great job. He's brought in players that should have been better (i.e. Kapono, Bargnani) this year, but just haven't worked out. I think he'll right this ship before the team suits up next year. He has a very high basketball IQ and I'm not willing to call for his head just yet. If anyone has to go in personnel, it should be Sam...but i'd wait for that too.
  25. Roger S from Canada writes: Big C agreed with me? See, the stange things are happening those days, most impossible becomes possible.

    Now, the good news is, Raptors can finish at 6th. If Toronto can play perfect basketball, I think they have chance to force game 7, and win it. By saying perfect basketball I mean:

    1. Jose is allowed to finish the game.
    2. TJ's Hormone level is low
    3. Bash not shy off physical play.
    4. Andrea can make shots.
  26. Marcus M from Vancouver, Canada writes: Spiker: I think if the Raptors had the 7-12 guys making minimum they would still be in the same position THIS YEAR. Even if BC had the cap space to make bigger moves you're assuming that he would be able to get a high priced player to play in Toronto via trade or by signing him. Boston and Detroit have the 7-12 guys making minimum because they have all-stars for their starters. The only All-Star that the Raps have is Bosh and maybe one day JC and that's it. So I agree that it would be nice to have the benchwarmers take up less cap space but it doesn't matter because there's no All-Star player that they can bring in right now.
    I think we need to be a little more patient before we start calling out BC. The Pistons didn't become who they are overnight. They drafted well (Prince, Maxiell, Hamilton, etc) or traded for players (Sheed, Billups) and after a few years they are now where they are. I think BC could do the same if given time.
  27. M Spiker from Ottawa, Canada writes: I want the number 7-12 guys on this team making the minimally sufficient salary that gives TOR a second team that can play when needed. Right now the 2nd team is a $16.9M cap load and you have 1 guy you can count on (Jose), 3 guys who might show up for a game (AB, JK, CD), and a guy who may DNP (Hump). This isn't good when you consider that the starters are: CB a game in game out stud, AP and TJ who play every night but aren't always going to be effective, and RN and JM who may be so off they get benched.

    DET and TOR pay just about the same for their starters and 2nd team combined. DET has a bit more tied up in deadwood but that is a problem for their ownership (bottom line) and they can afford it. Dumars has been effective where it counts (the guys who play the minutes). Yes he got to piggyback on the works of previous good management but his track record is very good.

    BC's name is on every contract but CB and JC (arguably their 2 best players). If he had been as effective (e.g., not overpaying for an FA, Kapono, in a weak market) there would have been room for 2 very good FAs/trades who could start for this team. Not max money types (like DET and BOS can get) but reliable playmakers nonetheless.

    I'll be very interested to see what BC does this summer to begin to put together a consistent 5 starter plus 5 sub team that can compete for the East title.

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