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Raptors exact revenge

LARRY MILLSON

From Tuesday's Globe and Mail

Latest comment posted at 7:14 AM EST 02/04/08

Toronto picks up win in Charlotte after losing in previous visit ...Read the full article

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  1. andy c from Canada writes: not the decisive win i was expecting... i wish i could say they are rounding into playoff form but i can't which is a bit troubling; so for all the stat hounds, who wants to go first?
  2. Chris Yang from Toronto, Canada writes: Wait for it... Roger is going to blame TJ for Calderon playing poorly. And Rich is going to say something like "Trade Kobe for TJ Ford"
  3. andy c from Canada writes: if the raps win and calderon plays well rog is ALWAYS the first poster here. if not then who knows when he'll post...
  4. Chris Yang from Toronto, Canada writes: In all seriousness though, the lack of interior defense on the Raptors side were as glaring as they are on the Bobcats. How many times did a Bobcat dribble his way in deep, draw defenders and then pass off to someone for a dunk or a layup? I thought Sam Mitchell's head was going to explode, his hand gestures were coming fast and furious. There were times when the Raptors were standing around wondering what justhappened. The fact of that matter is that against strong, athletic backcourts (and to a similar extent, small forwards), the Raptors are getting shredded to pieces. No amount of zone or man to man seem to be doing them any favours, other than Rasho. They give up too easily to the opposition.
  5. John Nicholson from Oshawa, writes: I think Sam may have had a few words at the half as the Rap's started playing defense in the 3rd qtr. Ist half Cats 63pts 2nd half 37.
    I think he got their attention to play some defense. Very frustrating players who only play good defense some of the time.
  6. C Ta from Richmond Hill, Canada writes: I must say, Jamario had the type of game that we've all come to hope he'd have. Several alley-oop dunks, drove to the rim at least twice(!), got to the free throw line, and best of all, no 3-point attempts for a tidy 6 of 7 FG, 8 RB, 2 BS, 15 points! Defense was pretty solid, too.

    Let's hope he continues to "get it" for more than just one night.
  7. Rich Chan from Vancouver, Canada writes: Hey listen man, I'll admit that TJ played well tonight. In fact, Jose wasn't playing very good at all, but players are entitled to playing badly once in a while, not 9 out of 13 games with the coach allowing it. You all know who.
  8. Yertu Damkule from Canada writes: a couple thoughts. interior D wasn't great, but wasn't bad, overall. boykins had his way with the TO backcourt (jose didn't have a great game, and he looked bad trying to guard him). 1st half - horrible close-outs on perimeter shooters (again)...much better in the 2nd. bosh was far too content to settle for fadeaway 20-footers. some pretty horrible officiating, both ways. bench was a no-show. best game by moon in a while. overall, though, the raps played with little urgency, like they were expecting char. to start playing like crap. as for the margin of victory - not sure why anyone was expecting a blowout, the cats have played well recently (road wins vs. LA, SEA & POR), beat the raps last time they played, the raps were on the 2nd of a home-road B2B, and haven't exactly been lighting it up. but wow, that was some horrible ball they ('cats) played in the 2nd half - despite which, they were never truly out of it (which sort of says something about how the raps played). hey, how 'bout hump, what a difference maker - too bad they can't stick rasho's brain in hump's body. did anyone see what AB did that was so horrible he got benched (i was flicking back/forth b/w the raps & the rangers/penguins)? i saw him play pretty well in the 2nd Q, some good/decent D, a few nice boards that he actually fought for (as opposed to falling into his hands). i guess he has a two-missed-shot max. in the end, though, it's pretty clear that TJ almost cost them this one, and it was only because they had jose on the floor at the end with him that they were able to pull it out. even my 1-mth old nephew could see that.
  9. Yertu Damkule from Canada writes: hey rich, sorry to burst your jose-bubble, but have a look back over the last 20-odd games, and not only have the raps lost most of 'em, but jose hasn't exactly lit the world on fire with his play. he's certainly had some good games mixed in there, but for the most part, he's not played well. i'm not going to play the revisionist history game & look back at his stats for the last month or so - i'll leave that to you guys. but since 'all that matters' is team wins - they have 3 wins against quality teams in two months (& that's if you count wash. as a 'quality team.'). i'm not for one second advocating that their recent run of poor play is the fault of jose, or that TJ has played well (he infuriates me at times, too), but i find it somewhat ironic how long jose's good play lingers (he had an incredible run of games in feb especially), and how quick some of us are to dismiss TJ's solid outings. point is, it's no coincidence that the PG play hasn't been stellar recently, and neither has the raps record. does it matter who plays well & who plays poorly, if they lose regardless? the situation may well change over the summer, but until then, they need both performing at higher levels if the raps want to avoid being embarrassed in the playoffs.
  10. Larry Boutilier from Sydney, Canada writes: Every team given a chance will beat itself. Which is what the Bobcats did.
    Usually, the Raps beat themselves too often, The Bobs settled for too many jump shots in the second halfand we all know what that leads to.
    TO won because of Bosh going to the rim. The BIG concern is how many hits can he take per game.Which is why he likes to take jumpers when he can get away with it. No player can take getting fouled every time without getting banged up.If only the Raps would bang the opposing cutters it would be ok.I cant understand why Mitchell doesnt put out
    a banger with orders to do just that.
  11. Joseph Daniel from Canada writes: G M editors are funny, yesterday they wouldn't let my post through, I guess because I called Rog a More On , (see if this gets past them). Basically I was echoing what yertu said about CP3. When it looked like Rog's love interest Jose was leading the team back, Byron Scott looked down his bench called CP's number and it was game over in less than a minute of his time on the floor. That is what a real pg looks like rog. The raps have no one close to CP, they have two good ones. not one great one as you like to think. anyway decent win looks like the raps will finnish 6th like people were hoping for. I am guessing 4 wins will do that for them. if they win more than 4 they could finnish 5th. I think I would rather take a 6th place finnish at this point.
  12. andy c from Canada writes: Yertu; i don't know, for a team thats supposedly gearing up for the playoffs this game should have been over with 2 mins left in the game. i was not expecting a blowout but i was not expecting it to come down to two possesions with a min left either.
  13. Yertu Damkule from Canada writes: andy - i don't disagree...the raps should have dominated much more, but considering the last months worth of games, i'm not about to start complaining about a smaller-than-expected MoV. you're right, a team gearing up for the playoffs should be playing much better. they seem to be playing around with lineups/matchups, etc. i've been lumped in with the smitch supporters (which much be ironic for those who remember me wondering if he'd be back this year), but if they're still trying to figure out who they can count on game to game, this late in the year, then there's trouble a-brewin'.
  14. Big Cayman from South Toronto, Canada writes: Another terrible outing for Il Mago. We're not hearing too many Dirk comparisons anymore, but hey, he is a Raptor so we should fully support him, and I think I've found the perfect coach for him to teach him how to post up, run the floor, as well as move without the ball to get open looks...:

    http://broadband.nba.com/cc/playa.php?content=video&url=http://boss.streamos.com/wmedia/nba
    /nbacom/news/lamarcus29andgamewinner080307.asx

    ...Hahaha, sorry couldn't resist LOL. I guess what I like about this is its from one game and not a montage of a whole season...BTW Yertu on yesterdays thread I waited all evening up to this morning on your response to Rog's shot at you, what happened? No retort or witty repartee?
  15. Joseph Daniel from Oakville, Canada writes: Hey wouldn't you know it More on made it through the g&m editing guru's . Speaking of which no post today from you know who. Big C, I haven't gone completely south on Il Mago just yet. I would give him another 1/2 to full year to see what happens. I saw on the weekend where Jack McCluskey got an award. I was wondering what the heck for ? the biggest first round bust ever? I blame him for Haffa not Rbabcock. Though we were analyzing the draft and how things played out over the years. Lets say in 04 the raps draft Igguodala. then in 04/05 they trade away VC for the same draft picks. Now instead of drafting Charlie V they take Bynum. I beleive the reason they didn't take bynum that year was because of hoffa. then with the next 1st rounder they take Granger, Personally I would have gone with Gerald greene but the guys here at work wanted Grander.
    Roko with the 2nd round pick. Now you would have a starting line up of Bynum, Bosh, Granger, AI, Calderon. Not too shabby. Add the 06 pick of lets say Roy or Gay instead of il mago. hmmm...interesting.
  16. Yertu Damkule from Canada writes: bigC - c'mon now, for the 7:30 bargs was on the floor, he actually played decently - at worst, he was no worse than hump. i guess all the talk about them just wanting him to defend & rebound, and not worry about his shot, was crappola, cause he was doing both well, but missed a couple shots (a drive & a good-looking 3), so out he comes.

    missed rog's shot, i'll have to go back & check it out.
  17. Bubba The Pas Huskies from The Pas Manitoba, Canada writes: Know what this blog site needs? A psychiatrist. To analyze us bloggers and provide anger management as well as try to figure out what makes the Raptors tick.
    Two different teams last night between the 1st and 2nd half. Apparently Smith had a yelling fit to attract some interest in the dressing room to get players to play D.
    I'm a big proponent of leadership. If you have it at the top, GM, coaches, and find it in a player, you can get subpar and par players playing above their level of skill. If you don't have strong leadership, players wont stretch to excell, or do whatever it takes to win. We have a lot of those players. Lots of medium skilled who can excel when challenged.
    Rasho is coming on in leadership and Bosh is learning it too but still isn't there. Same with Smitch. Aside from Rasho who has the ring and the experience of being with a team of proven winners, the Raps are learning the ropes of what it takes to win. Thats where time together (e.g. Pistons, Spurs, Suns, Lakers) shows what it takes to win.
    Anyone who needs a one on one with the teams new shrink please leave your name on the site (anyone takers?..) :)
  18. Joseph Daniel from Oakville, Canada writes: Bubba i believe I am in need of a shrink cause I keep coming here to check out the insanity. But hey its all fun, the season is almost done, the real season is about to begin. Just wondering aloud lets say the raps get the 6th seed. and lose to orlando in 6 or 7 hard fought games how would everyone feel about the state of the team? On the right track? going in the wrong direction?
  19. Yertu Damkule from Canada writes: bigC - it wasn't much of a 'shot' from rog, just confirmation that he hasn't figured out sarcasm yet (which is odd, because if you read his posts as though he were trying to be ironic, they'd be quite amusing). trying to get a point across to rog is like playing chess with the dudes who ride the short bus.
  20. andy c from Canada writes: this place is my shrink. if i didn't check in here on a regular basis i would not make it to closing time.
  21. Rich Chan from Vancouver, Canada writes: Yes guys, we really do need shrinks after reading posts about everything. Okay, I'll admit it, TJ played amazing getting the offense involved and Jose didn't play as well, but that generally changes from game to game and Jose had an off-day yesterday, and please, nobody go back and post up the time when I wanted to kick the crap out of TJ for making us lose games that were very winnable, especially you Big C. Okay guys, it's getting close to that time right now, and we could very well end up with Orlando, Philadelphia, Cleveland, Washington, or even Detroit at this point. Who do you want us to play?
  22. CLEMENT CHAN from Mississauga, Canada writes: Jose sucked last night. No body, except roger is to be blamed 'cause rog jinx it! Hey, rog, can you stop putting up those forceful stats in your post. Keep it to yourself, email yourself if you feel needing to let out. From reliable source, raptorland history goes like this: Colangelo and Mitchell wanted to start Ford for a no. of reasons, an important one is Ford's emotion to play backup has rendered him and the team going downhill (To me, although Ford did not do that deliberately, he is no better than Vince tanking the team for a trade). BC and Mitchell talked to Jose and asked for his opinion with sweet words. As a good team player, Jose agreed to the arrangement to have TJ start. Colangelo said the rap management wanted Jose to have a good price contract and the management will match the contract anyway. So BC told Jose better to stress to the media the idea originates from Jose (Jose probably has indicated this arrangement sometime ago). Anyway, later Jose did indicate the true story to a Spanish media. A more interesting event happened last night. The all-defense mind set Mitchell collaborate with Colangelo. Suppose within all the PG in the league, one that Ford can do best defense against is Boykin but Mitchell let Calderon guard him. With other things going on, Jose played badly. The sucker Jose was, the more pumped up Ford was. So a lot of crack-head GM will fall in love with Ford now. Jose’s contract to match later will be much easier too.
  23. CLEMENT CHAN from Mississauga, Canada writes: However, we cannot expect the rap to have a lot in return for Ford. Not just scouts and GM’s are watching Ford, the insurance company is also watching closely now. In case of Ford is working for a new team, a new insurance policy with much higher premium may be required for Ford in view of his congenital condition and accident prone play style. In extreme situation, Ford may not be able to play for other teams if no practical insurance policy with reasonable premium can be provided by insurance companies. So, you see, Colangelo have to work really hard to gloom TJ.
  24. Yertu Damkule from Canada writes: wow, clement, that was...interesting.
  25. Stevie Dee from Canada writes: Now Rich, was that so hard? ;)

    Actually, this has been how TJ has been playing since being re-inserted as the starter. He's been very in control and not forcing his shots too much. Question I have is, how come? Very odd that he would play this way in one role, and then be so destructive to the team in the other. Wonder if he even knows the answer himself.

    Credit to Calderon for recognizing this and suggesting the change, but I'm afraid that there may be more to it that we don't know. Calderon played fantastic in the backup role at the end of last year and the beginning of this year, then played incredible as a starter when TJ was out, but his game has gotten progressively worse since TJ was back. Wonder if he's a little burnt out from all the heavy minutes?

    As for the game, I dunno what to think. I kinda like the peices this Bobcats team has (especially Wallace), and they did win 4 of 5 out west. Having said that, the Raps have not played well in their last two wins, and have gotten shelled every time that they've played a good team lately. And, they're running out of time to find a rotation that works. Myself, I'm not expecting much from this year.
  26. Rich Chan from Vancouver, Canada writes: Nice post Clement, interestingly enough to fill in the blanks of what transpired behind the Jose to TJ thing. Not really too sure what to make of it, but TJ does look like he's playing better. More like the time he was playing in the pre-season games where he was not shooting as much and basically playing to make other team-mates get the offense going. At this point, maybe it's best to not say anything about both point guards now and let this thing boil down to the offseason, but first things first, the post-season.. GO RAPS GO!!!!!!!!!!
  27. Rich Chan from Vancouver, Canada writes: Stevie, at this point I really don't want to look into the conspiracy theories about all this stuff, but it's very easy too. Clement explained it best about what possibly could have happened in between the cracks of missing puzzle pieces to this fascinating story, but you can't expect me to start liking somebody after hating them all this time. What Ford expects Raptor fans to do is forget about what transpired when he was on the bench, which I thought he was dogging as a reason for not being a starter, but I guess we'll never know. I want to be angry about this, but it's not really beneficial for my health at this point when he's playing well. Ahhhh, so many conspiracy theories; Watergate, Hoffa, 911/Bush and now Calderon/TJ.. LOL
  28. Rich Chan from Vancouver, Canada writes: I guess the key though Stevie is what we wanted from the Raptors the whole time. For them to win games even when they're playing badly, and they've managed to do that. The New Orleans game wasn't out of reach for us to win, seriously, and I like how the bench came back strong being down 20 points at some point to bring it back to 6. If CP3 didn't come back in the final 3 minutes, who knows what could have happened.
  29. Chris Yang from Toronto, Canada writes: Clement, you do realize this is the SPANISH media we're talking about, right? I'm not sure if you realize, but Spanish media is about as unreliable and nationalistic as they come. If you know anything about Fernando Alonso from F1, you'd know how much BS is put into Spanish media. So I would trust what Jose says in North American media more than what the Spanish would say about a dude they haven't talked to face to face...

    It's a curse for the point guard playing with the second unit. When the second unit is able to drive and get to the basket, then the point guard directing them has good stats (case in point, Calderon bench vs. Hornet's bench... at least until CP3 came back in and finished them off). But how many times has that happened during this half of the season? Watching games, seeing Delfino in one of his poor stretches, Kapono mishandling tosses from the PG (either Calderon or Ford), Bargnani completely disappearing, etc. made me realize that stats really don't tell the whole story- a PG only plays as well as his teammates. If they're not on the same page then of course the PG will get a high number of turnovers compared to assists. I mean, how many times have we seen TJ try to hook Kapono up, only for Kapono to fling himself into the paint crazily and miss a shot? Then that PG will either try to force the issue and lob up shots himself (TJ), or else continue playing poorly (Calderon).
  30. Rich Chan from Vancouver, Canada writes: Chris, I'm going to have to disagree with you here. I mean, we're just as easily fooled into thinking things based on media just as easily as the Spanish media fools people. How can we say for sure that we are correct in hearing things too. Michael Grange was talking about a conspiracy and TJ and Jose said everything is okay. We're being fooled as well too.

    I'm going to agree with your assessment of the point guard situation about the whole team has to play well for the point guards to do well with assists, but there were times earlier in the season when TJ was playing wrecklessly and made ridiculous (as in not-good) passes that the rest of the team couldn't catch, which would lead to turn-overs. When Calderon plays badly it's not because of this, it's because he's not able to get his shooting going. What I'm basically trying to say is, I would prefer the team playing badly as a reason as to why we lose, not because a point guard isn't making his shots to try to keep us in a game.
  31. Big Cayman from South Toronto, Canada writes: CLEMENT CHAN from Mississauga, Canada writes:"...Hey, rog, can you stop putting up those forceful stats in your post. Keep it to yourself, email yourself if you feel needing to let out..." Clement that's gotta be the funniest thing I've ever heard you say 'email yourself' hahahahahaha!...I have to admit that I will be glad when the season is over because this TJ/Jose thing really got out of hand. We all really need to get out for a beer (or Vodka) at the ACC during the playoffs and laugh about it.
  32. Rich Chan from Vancouver, Canada writes: Big C, you know what's funny about your last statement. We probably all would look at each other and just laugh out loud about pissing each other off with the postings for this season. Beer and wings sound great.
  33. Big Cayman from South Toronto, Canada writes: Sometimes I cringe when I look back at some of the stuff I've posted over the years, then for sure I laugh, its probably why I keep coming back. But I'll put it out there and say that if anyone wants to get together at the ACC during the playoffs we'll pick a time and date when the matchups are finalized and there is a weekend home game, Yertu you better be there just in case I need backup! ('The short bus lol'). Speaking of which its almost 3pm where is Rog?
  34. Chris Yang from Toronto, Canada writes: The thing is, Sam Mitchell, BC, Jose, his teammates, and TJ have all said the same thing to media, that Jose made the decision for TJ to start in his place. With the vast majority of outlets saying the same thing vs. one or two Spanish sources saying something else (and with no stated sources to boot), who would you trust more? What Michael Grange writes in his blog and what he writes in the daily edition of the Globe and Mail are two separate things; and he only mentioned the Spanish media outlets. Hardly any sort of conspiracy (yeah, as if there's a conspiracy to make the Raptors perform badly on purpose). Doug Smith's Raptors Blog on The Toronto Star website dismissed those rumours too. It pays to research multiple media sources, and get facts straight from the source before forming opinions of things.

    It's only in a place like Canada where people get all riled up over TJ Ford and Jose Calderon. Considering we also booed most of the stars that have played for us, like TMac, Mighty Mouse, and yes, even Wince (who I feel deserved it... but come on, booing for several season?), while we applaud mediocre players (who are good guys but nonetheless mediocre) like The Red Rocket, I guess stupid things like this are to be expected.
  35. Chris Yang from Toronto, Canada writes: As for TJ lobbing up shots that have no prayer of a chance: In the stretch of games where Bosh was injured, I have to admit that I was frustrated with TJ's play, probably as frustrated as he was at himself when he got two technicals and was thrown out of that one game. It's clear he was trying to carry the entire offensive load on his shoulders. Not a wise choice most times, but you could see why he did it, especially when their offensive execution was poor. But ever since Bosh was back, TJ's stats have improved and he's paced himself considerably better. It's much easier to perform your job in the presence of Bosh, because when in doubt, lob the ball to him and he'll run to the rim and get fouled.
  36. John Luu from Toronto, Canada writes: Count me in if you guys want to catch a game during playoffs time. I'm curious to put a face to all the names. Been reading this group since comments started.
  37. Toby Maloney from Canada writes: I saw one simple offensive set that I liked last night, a kind of big man overload. Bosh settled at mid-post and Humphreys started at low post on the same side. Hump slid baseline to the basket as Bosh dribbled low. In the case I saw Bosh put up a short jumper, poorly contested because the defender has to worry about the flip inside to Humphrey, and the option of Bosh driving to the hoop himself. It's a good set I'd like to see more often because it forces the opponents to play Bosh one on one since the double team would leave the weak side wide open for a skip pass. It puts Humphrey (or another big, could be Nesterovic) in good position for a rebound and its also the kind of play that makes the other team work on Defence.

    Speaking of which do the Raptors not get enough shots in warm-up? Do they have to start every game with the starters each taking two or three outside shots like they did in the opening quarter last night?

    Unless they shoot 60% and sometimes they do, it's a strategy for giving up rebounds and transition points. Shouldn't be shooting that many times from outside unless they are reversing the ball, or it's late in the clock. Even if it goes in (I'm looking at you TJ) it's a rest for the opponents.
  38. Bubba The Pas Huskies from The Pas Manitoba, Canada writes: I wonder if this is how the Maple Laffs fanatics got started... wondering if Inge Hammerstrom really could go into the corners without breaking an egg (a Harold Ballardism...)
    As to an earlier post, going to game 6 or 7 in the first round will be seen as a predictable loss. Going out in 4 would be depressing, going into round 2 is a success in a year that showed so much more improvement needed to seriously compete with the big dogs.
    You guys who live in the T.O. area really should get together for a year end gala, to celebrate the discussion/humour on this site. Kudos to the G&M and Grange for making it happen. To be honest I'm more interested in the comments here than in Grange's insites (sorry Micheal, you're ok and all...)...
  39. Vinthulan N from Canada writes: keep jose trade t.j for jamaal crawfoprd
  40. Rich Chan from Vancouver, Canada writes: Darrick Martin's daughter who is in Grade 2 knows who's the better point guard. Why can't the rest of you.. LOL.. just kidding..

    http://www.thestar.com/columnists/article/407832
  41. CLEMENT CHAN from Mississauga, Canada writes: Count me in, Big C,

    Now I can whole heartedly cheer for the raps!
  42. Roger S from Canada writes: So, Ratpors beat Bobcats, a bunch of TJ Fans jumpped out, they sounds like TJ Ford just won MVP. You know Ford will never win any kind of MVP, he will not even be mentioned as possible All Star in his life. Get real, TJ fans! This was a "garbage" NBA game by definition.They are Bobcats, Do not over intepretate it.
  43. dan vanman from vancouver, Canada writes: Wow Roger...you call yourself a fan huh? A good win is garbage...TJ having good stats is irrelevant...and TJ sucks because you say so?

    You really are a sad angry person, whose opinion means nothing.

    TJ is a basketball player, and he is paid millions to take crap when it is due.

    But your crap isn't even close to being due. You slag the man regardless.

    Must not have much of a life Roger...sad really.
  44. Roger S from Canada writes: A "good" win? If you beat Detroit, Boston, Cleveland, Orlando, even Washington on the road, those can be called good wins. Beating the crappy teams like Bobcats, New York or Heat is the thing you should accomplish day in and day out, it is routine.............. It is big mistake for Raptors not playing Andrea heavy mins now. I don't kow whose idea, BC or Sam, I mean that's stupid. No matter what, Raptors will make the playoffs and most likely they will play Cleveland or Orlando in first round. They should use the 10 games left in Apr to adjust themself for playoffs. Last year, they were not ready; this year by sitting Andrea at this stage, they will have difficulty too.
  45. Rich Chan from Vancouver, Canada writes: I actually agree with Rog about one thing. Somebody needs to light a fire under Bargnani right now. Seriously. There's no reason to believe why he can't be where he was a year ago at this stage. We need someone like Bosh to embarass him and do what he did to him last season. He's not a bust, but right now he's really lost, and he needs to snap out of it. I really think this is the sophomore jinx right now. Maybe he was put in the starting position too quickly in the beginning of the season, then taken out for BS, or because Mitchell can't seem to find a way to tighten the rotation more. I mean seriously, do we really have to play every godda** player that we have, or have the ones that play well one game sit out the entire game next. Ahhh, oh well, again more things to address in the offseason. Bargs needs more time. You all gave it to TJ, why not Bargs.
  46. Roger S from Canada writes: In playoffs, Bosh is easy to be shut down. The little pet TJ is even more easier to get shot down, with little effort. The only Raptors their opponents will have difficulties is Andrea Bargnani. However, everybody saw it, this guy is not an automatic. He need to be tuned before he can perform. On the other hand, Rasho is automatic turbo, he is ready, at any time.

    Stupid coach just can't get it.
  47. Yertu Damkule from Canada writes: BigC - if you wanna spring for the plane ticket, i'm all for meeting up w/ you guys in TO for a playoff game. I'm sure there's a (short) bus i can catch, but it'd be a rather long drive...

    oh rog, you and your sarcasm.

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