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Leafs realize their fate

DAVID SHOALTS

From Thursday's Globe and Mail

Latest comment posted at 9:02 AM EDT 31/03/08

Antropov to return, Sundin possibly; but does it really matter? ...Read the full article

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  1. David C from Canada writes: Its a shame that they could not pull it together (again). But until the team is stripped down and re-built from the ground up, the results are going to be an echo of past seasons. They need a 5 year plan and a young team with a few clever veterans showing the ropes. And a lot less of these guns for hire senior players. For now, the leafs will have to accept the fact that they continue to do worse than the Senators.. Oh the shame!
  2. Bobby S from Toronto, Canada writes: "The question is, does it really matter?"

    If it doesn't matter, why write about it?

    For the love of God, enough with the Leaf articles. They're 12th in their conference, out of the playoffs and are a sad sack. Why continue writing about them.....
  3. John Gallant from Charlottetown, Canada writes: The only thing that the Leafs could do now to hurt their fans even more is to go on a five game winning streak and ruin the draft even further. They coasted through most of the year and when they knew they couldn't make the playoffs they went on a winning streak to ruin the draft lottery for the fans. Now the lazy slobs can take their summer holidays in April instead of late May or June. Let's hope the Leaf management takes heed to the fool me once rule this time because this is the third time they pulled off this stunt. If the team isn't blown up, then obviously management will never learn and all we Leaf fans can hope for is another expansion team in Toronto.
  4. J Law from Canada writes: I really think Toronto has to do a quick study of teams such as Anaheim and Montreal. I'm not trying to stick it in your face, Toronto, but take a look at teams that are building by keeping their draft picks and then adding role players they need to fill out the roster. Montreal has given up some good players because they didn't fit the TEAM in order to bring in players who did fit. They have also brought some pride back to the team.

    The only pride Toronto had was when Sundin said, I'm not leaving because I believe. Then his team mates started to believe, but Toronto has to get rid of some of their players and rebuild.
  5. Scot Loucks from Pickering, Canada writes: As I suggested on the other thread after last nights game... the dressing room is going to be like a morgue.

    Not a good place for their young players.

    The sooner the math says they are out.... the better.
  6. J Law from Canada writes: John Gallant from Charlottetown

    Toy Toy would be so ashamed of that comment, John. He went out every game to win. Now how would the Toronto fans feel paying $100 for a ticket to watch their teams try to lose.
  7. King 99 from Canada writes: Cliff has to step in NOW and tell Maurice to put in Raycroft. As far as the 5 yr. plan goes they need to step it up to 3 max. Id rather see the Leafs get towards an Anaheim style team. Too many euros on the Canadians for my liking. If Kovalev does his normal dissappearing act where do you think the Habs would be? Not first that's for sure. Even if Mats and Niky are ready I's limit their minutes for sure. As a matter of fact I'd bring up Jay Harrison for sure. If you want tuffness in the lineup he's your man. Why they've left him down on the farm is beyond me. He's probably the tuffest guy in their system. It's shows you how pathetic they are if a visor wearin Kronwall drops the mitts.
  8. george simko from Canada writes: Bobby S from Toronto:
    After reading your post,I must concur with your comments.
    There is nothing much one can add to this developing
    comedy. Your post expresses the sentiments of many. The
    Toronto writers keep kicking a ....enough!Hopefully,they have
    acumen to write about some interesting facets about the Habs
    or Sens.Regards.
  9. Hap Stokes from Canada writes: As a Leaf hater, wish they could upgrade to a real TEAM again. That way I could stop my stomach pains from laughing at their jokes.

    Why just copy Anaheim in rebuilding the Laffs?

    As Coach Tikanvov once answered something like this when asked why he didn't use the superior Canadian hockey methology.

    "Why copy the Canadian players"?
    "If we (Russians) do everything the Canadians do, how can we get better than them"? We Russians don't want to be just as good as them; we Russians want to be superior to the Canadians".

    (Note: that quote is not 100% precise, but the general statement was accurate as was the reply of Coach Tikanvov)

    How can Toronto ever hope to win, if all they do is mimic the winners that originated a winning system? Even if the Leafs were successful
    (in every way) of copying the winning systems; they would only be equal not superior.

    Anyway you C of U people, the Stanley Cup winning Anaheim is not the best team rather it is the San Jose Sharks!--And have been the best NHL club (back) since the lockout! Except the Sharks have been watching too much CBC HNIC and have mastered the art of 'Choking' like the two Ontario teams do this time every year when it counts.
  10. Carl Baldin from Canada writes: All that matters is that other teams are now 'followed' by the G&M....Pls no more Leafs!

    The most over rated team in hockey should consider:

    - joining the AHL (where they will be competative), or
    - trading the entire team, including management, to Atlanta, or
    - putting a blckout on all TV, Newspapers etc. etc. outside of the 'centre of the universe',

    .........so other Canadians don't have to listen to hopeless fans (including Bob Cole) that make this team to be so great when they in fact are an absolute joke!

    Amen!
  11. Jeff Gulley from Hradec Kralove, Czech Republic, Canada writes: Carl Baldin, in response to your three points:

    - I think the Leafs have shown since the trade deadline that they can be competitive in the NHL too

    -I agree that it's time to rebuild; they're not gonna do anything with this squad. Wouldn't trade ALL the players as you suggest, but I assume you're being sarcastic.

    -The CBC and HNIC built a hockey watching and hockey loving nation out of broadcasting the Leafs and Canadiens. They owe the Leafs their existence (and a lot of revenue). Get the satellite package or stream the other games online if you want to watch them. CBC owes more to the Toronto Maple Leafs than they do to you.
  12. Jeff Gulley from Hradec Kralove, Czech Republic, Canada writes: By the way, if they're so overrated, why do you keep clicking on stories to read about them? The best way to make something go away is to ignore it, not to play with it. Haven't you ever had a toothache!?

    Cheers....enjoy the playoffs everyone....looks like my Leafs won't be (sigh, again). Good thing it's just hockey and there are more important things to take seriously.
  13. Biggest Redneck from United States writes: GO OILERS
  14. the rose from t.o., Canada writes: J Law said
    "
    The only pride Toronto had was when Sundin said, I'm not leaving because I believe. Then his team mates started to believe, but Toronto has to get rid of some of their players and rebuild."
    what a great point, it shows how much a difference it makes when a team plays with heart. These are well-paid professionals, they were in Carolina when they had the lead and an open-net, they were early in the year with Raycroft starting, and they were well-paid at the trade deadline.
    The only thing you (J Law) are missing is the delight leaf fans would have at paying only $100 to go to a game... maybe they could sell beer at a reasonable price too!
  15. Building an Ark from Canada writes: Too late Mr. Sundin. The greatest help to this team should have been your trade with draft picks. Ignore the fact that you may be opening a Volvo dealership, communications conglomerate, or enjoying Southern Ontario - you did the Leafs a massive blow by not improving the team at the trade deadline. I understand though as you are not a vested owner, why would you care? A no trade clause is just that! I hope your next business proves better than the one you are with!!!
  16. Hugh May from Khon Kean, Thailand writes: Way way back in 1967 when I was a grade 12 student at Western Tech, a team called the Maple Leafs won the Stanley Cup. The final year of the old six team league. I don't expect it will ever happen again in my life time. For a team to be successful, it begins at the top with good management. The Leafs over the last 40 years have only had a succession of Harold Ballards.
  17. Mac - GLG from Canada writes: Bobby S from Toronto, Canada writes: "The question is, does it really matter?"
    If it doesn't matter, why write about it?

    So Bobby - Why are you writing?
  18. Y NOT from Canada writes: Go Habs Go!!!!
  19. dan vanman from vancouver, Canada writes: Come on Jeff, you don't honestly think the Laffs "built CBC and HNIC?" That is such an assinine statement.

    Maybe in the 6 team league, when you were a Has fan or a Laffs fan, but since expansion...no way. Canuck fans have been that way since 70/71, and the Laffs moved to #2 on most peoples faves list.

    And since the Oilers won all those Cups, and the Flames moved to Calgary, even less so.

    The Laffs haven't been competitive enough to be "Canada's team" for a long time.

    The CBC and HNIC owe the Laffs nothing. The proof of that is how quickly they moved to making the Habs the national feed this year.

    Its a business. Thats it. The Laffs have their own TV for all those in S. Ontario that feel the need to throw their dollars at the team.
  20. Rob C from Canada writes: I for one, have written a whole lot about the "interesting facets" of the Sens. Specifically, the two most interesting, which are: they have no golatending and no team toughness. Want three more? Ok, No grit, no determination and no team defense. The dressing room has a toxic culture of losing when it matters, which is in the playoffs, not the frst 20 games of the season. Riveting stuff, eh? If I were a Sens fan, I would welcome all the attention the Leafs get and take some away from my team of invertibrate wannabes in need of a collective heart transplant...... (Now, watch as at least three Sens fans will mug me for these honest an most acurate opinions) - All the whining won't change the facts about that team of losers....Smackdown!!
  21. Christopher Prout from Canada writes: The only reason the leafs are winning a few games now is because the old players want keep face and go somewhere else and ask for the retarded money they are getting in T.O. I'm a Sens fan but want all Canadian teams to do well, not always on behalf of the sens though. I like the 5 year plan, sign the young talent you leafs have now, fill in a few spots with a few rookies, draft, and a few vets to help the rookies. If you leaf fans want, Ottawa will send you Gerber and Emery for Toskola, Emery is still young he can bounce back.
  22. Christopher Prout from Canada writes: As a Sens fan I have to agree with you about the goaltending, off and on too much. But no grit, Neal and Fisher, come on who on T.O can do it better. Not Tucker anymore, maybe if the Leafs called Domi back. Come on, winning when it matters? Last year they made the finals and got beat by a better team, but so too did everyone in the western conference. Where were the Leafs...Golfing! Winning when it matters, how about making the playoffs, doesn't that count as winning when it matters. But i guess the Maple leaf has clouded your vison.
  23. Scot Loucks from Pickering, Canada writes: dan vanman from vancouver, Canada writes: Come on Jeff, you don't honestly think the Laffs "built CBC and HNIC?" That is such an assinine statement.

    Maybe in the 6 team league, when you were a Has fan or a Laffs fan, but since expansion...no way. Canuck fans have been that way since 70/71, and the Laffs moved to #2 on most peoples faves list.

    And since the Oilers won all those Cups, and the Flames moved to Calgary, even less so.

    The Laffs haven't been competitive enough to be "Canada's team" for a long time.

    --------------------------------

    LOL Danvanman.

    Calling Jeff asinine is a little bit off the wall Dan. Try looking at the populations of the provinces we are dealing with here. Over 30 percent of Canada lives in Ontario Dan..... and no they are not all Leaf fans... But there are a hell of a lot more Leaf fans in BC than their are Canuck fans in Ontario.

    Get a grip yourself Dan.

    btw; HNIC WAS built on the Habs and the Leafs... and that kept CBC alive. Arguing that point is... well... just asinine.

    Cheers
  24. Scot Loucks from Pickering, Canada writes: Christopher Prout;

    I agree with you if you are comparing the Leafs and Sens. This year was the softest Leaf team I have ever seen.

    But I still think the Sens are soft.... I also think the Habs are too soft.
    In fact.... I think most of the east is too soft (except the Flyers and I hate them).

    Cheers
  25. Hap Stokes from Canada writes: Tonight I just watched the Canucks get flattered in a 6-3 loss on TV.
    Score might have been 9-2 or 10-1 the WeakNuks were terrible.

    Yet on their worst off worse days those same horrible Nuks would wipe either the Pens or Montreal by 1 or 2 goals on 3 out of 4 games. The Weaknuks are going no place and neither are the best clubs in the Eastern Conference once they run against any ONE of the top Western six Teams.

    Dream on Habs fans
    You might win 2 (more like 1) against anybody in the west.
    Happy dreams!
  26. dan vanman from vancouver, Canada writes: Really Scot? Why, because you say so? The HNIC was a vehicle for the 6 team league, for sure, but the teams you talk about, the Habs and the Laffs, have not been competitive enough for the Cup in the last 15 years to be the teams that "built the CBC". (well...the Habs did win it ...when was that...'93?) Yours and my tax dollars built the CBC Scot...thats it. To think that just because there is a population disparity, and thats it...is, well, maybe not assinine, but a little silly. People don't get excited to watch the next game when the team loses all the time. The Habs, my apologies, they have done more recently than the T.O team. BTW, there are a growing number of Canucks fans in other cities all over the league. Check the stands next away broadcast. And the number of Laffs fans here is overrated, and overcounted. I assure you, talking to people on the streets and in the bars, they laugh at the pitiful antics of a Laffs team in turmoil, and wonder wistfully for the "good old days" I think the CBC and the league is stronger with a strong team in T.O...there is a lot of population there...but really...don't be so full of yourselves to think that they "built" a tax dollar funded organization. Have a great day...
  27. Robert Miller from Halifax, Canada writes: Hap Stokes from Canada:

    Careful what you wish fer... Cause you might just get it?

    You misguided Westerners don't stand a chance if you start dissing my Habs !!

    Strange things can happen in Montreal in the playoffs when the ghosts of the Habs past come out to play....

    AAAAAAWWWWWWWWWWWWWOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO !!!!
  28. dan vanman from vancouver, Canada writes: Well Robert, here one Westerner that can promise, as soon as my team makes its probable 1st round exit ( after 7 games of course!) I will be cheering long and loud for the Habs. I like the way they have played this year.

    Kovalev should be a candidate for MVP!

    But I do agree with Hap...the overall talent and strong teams are mainly in the West right now...although the game's brightest young stars are in the East, so that could change pretty fast!

    Go Canucks! Go Habs...Go...no sorry...can't say go Sens...just gets stuck in my throat!
  29. dan vanman from vancouver, Canada writes: See Scot and Jeff, I mean no offence to you proud Easterners. My problem is with Jeff saying the CBC AND Canada's love of hockey is all about the Laffs and Habs. That is way too simplistic, and really, an arrogant statement. When I was growing up, it was Bobby Orr...a great Canadian who played on an American team. I watched them all I could, and even tuned in dad's shortwave radio to get whatever radio broadcasts I could of my fave team. It wasn't the Habs, and certainly not the Laffs. Mine, and probably many, started their love affair with the game in cold arenas, at early morning practices. Parents drinking bad coffee as their sons try their best. Or, even better, on the outdoor rink...not caring how cold. Waking Mom or Dad. all decked out already in your gear, saying "lets go!" with your skates on your stick. Sure, we watched the games on Saturday. It was the only game in town. But that only added to our love of the game. It certainly wasn't "built" by watching one great team, and another that was sad sack...most the time...even then. I'll leave it to you to figure out which is which. Have a wonderful day guys...(oops...probably no paragraph breaks...guess I got caught up in the moment...you'll figure out where they go!)
  30. Proud Canadian from Canada writes: Scotty Loucks, Paul I from Rochester, the 2 biggest fans on here and the best posters. Like others said, and I agree (for that matter I think you guys will also), there has to be a (?) year plan put in place to "ready the ship". Not. Starting with disbandment of the current team, starting with shrewd and intelligent draft picks from the Junior ranks (Canadian please), to very few free agent picks. Toskola stays, I think if Mats wants 1 more year at a reasonable salary, he stays, White stays, Anthropov stays, Moore stays, some of the kids stay, I want to say Wellwood cause I saw him and liked him in Junior. But the CEMENT on the team, McCabe, Tucker, Blake, Bell, and others you can name Im sure have to go. You guys (being leaf fans) may have to bite the bullet as far as cap space to get rid of some this CEMENT, but you know guys, (and gals if any around) biting the bullet for a time (?) years or months may be worth it. Remember , Rome was not built in a day. Because the likes of Scotty Loucks, Paul I from Rochester, and other sensible and logical Leaf posters on here were not on the job. Right.
  31. Proud Canadian from Canada writes: Scotty Loucks, Paul I. Another thought. You dont win the cup with an "I" attitude. You do not win anything in team sports with an "I" attitude. In fact, you go nowhere in the workplace with the "I" attitude. If its not the "WE" attitude, its lost. My point. Getting to the Sens team, from last year to this year, I think a lot of the team has gone to the "I" attitude from the "we". And you know where its going to get them if they do not reverse it, NOWHERE. Its the same as a marriage, once the "I" do it all gets priority, as ta la vista. Yep, you do it all, now enjoy it cause u got it all. Team sports has to be a "WE", the Leafs have to build on that. Right guys?? Am I on a sensible playing field here????
  32. Scot Loucks from Pickering, Canada writes: Hi PC;

    Yes you got it... but not going to talk about the Sens right now.

    Dan Vanman... if you ever saw Bobby Orr play... then we are of the same decade.

    Back in the day of the original 6 there were fans of all six in the school yard.... Their teams looked like this... Toronto/Marlies Montreal/Jr Habs.. Kitchener/Rangers.... Hamilton/Wings and Oshawa/Bruins... Hawks/St. Catherine's.

    Back in the day our dads reminded us about listening to Foster Hewitt on the radio.... it was the Habs or the the Leafs.... against one of the others.

    Those of us that are of that age picked their teams a long time ago.
    Some have stayed (moi) ... some have wandered... due to lots of things including all the new teams and the loss of Junior/NHL affiliation.

    You still can't deny that HNIC was built on Leaf and Hab games... it was.

    HNIC built CBC... only thing they make money on.... Tough to deny that either.

    So...

    Why is Jeff's or my statement wrong?

    Give it up with your "I hate Toronto BS". Try another tact dude... it's boring.

    Cheers
  33. Bob Stanley from Toronto, Canada writes: Say what you will but the Sens will win the east...maybe not the cup...but the east.
  34. Paul I from Rochester NY, United States writes: Dan Vanman-Scot Loucks is a hockey fan and history teacher. Even this big 'ol dumb American realizes the Leafs and Habs "built HNIC and probably the CBC. I did not have the good fortune of being born in Canada, but I got the next best thing- Buffalo!. We got the Toronto and Hamilton TV stations and HNIC made me a Leaf fan forever. I remember my dad taking me over the Peace Bridge on Saturday mornings to play at some old barn in Fort Erie. It was all good back then, The Marlies and all the other OHL teams were also big fun to watch. If you saw Bobby Orr, than you have to agree that in the 1960's, HNIC was the Leafs. Sorry to bore the younger posters. I hope you guys can look back 40 years from now with some fondness for your time in hockey.

    Cheers
  35. Paul I from Rochester NY, United States writes: I forgot to mention the coolest thing about Toronto TV in the 1960's was the weather guy standing behind a big clear plastic map of Canada writing backwards on it with white markers. I think his name was Dave DeVol. Made me want to move to Canada.
  36. Verona Raven from United States writes: Why is it that the Sens, Oilers, Habs, Canucks, and Flames can get the the Stanley Cup finals in the last 15 years...

    Yet the "Nation" team cant even make the playoffs?
  37. Paul I from Rochester NY, United States writes: Excellent question Verona "Never More" Raven- If you can help us solve this issue,please send your suggestions to Mr.Richard Peddie c/o Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment. Toronto, Ontario. Thank you. "LN" will be most grateful.
  38. Neil no more last name from Mississauga, Canada writes: Bobby S from Toronto, Canada writes: "The question is, does it really matter?"

    If it doesn't matter, why write about it?

    For the love of God, enough with the Leaf articles. They're 12th in their conference, out of the playoffs and are a sad sack. Why continue writing about them.....
    ====================================================
    For the same reason you continue to comment on them.

    Thank you for your clicks and continued support.
  39. Neil no more last name from Mississauga, Canada writes: J Law from Canada writes: I really think Toronto has to do a quick study of teams such as Anaheim and Montreal. I'm not trying to stick it in your face, Toronto, but take a look at teams that are building by keeping their draft picks and then adding role players they need to fill out the roster.
    ====================================================

    Duh! Tell us something we don't know. The management team might be out to lunch, but contrary to popular belief the Fans aren't
  40. Neil no more last name from Mississauga, Canada writes: Verona Raven from United States writes: Why is it that the Sens, Oilers, Habs, Canucks, and Flames can get the the Stanley Cup finals in the last 15 years...

    Yet the "Nation" team cant even make the playoffs? (in the past 3 years to clarify)

    Good question. I think the fans who are paid nothing to solve this question should specualte some more, and the journalists paid to cover this material should continue to write about it.

    I'm not sure what you mean by nation, but I'll assume you mean the Leafs.
  41. Rob C from Canada writes: Reminder: The Habs missed te playoffs last year (behind the Leafs). The Leafs don't have JFJ mishandling the GM role any more - and they have solid goaltending going into next year. Get rid of some of the dead weight, make a few shrewd moves and who knows what can happen?
  42. dan vanman from vancouver, Canada writes: I expected that Scot, that typical T.O CFentre of the Universe thinking.

    Both you and Jeff are afflicted with a bad case of this disease, so maybe we can get something straight.

    I do not now, nor have I ever "hated Toronto". I like Vancouver better because of reasons too many to mention, but never said I hated Toronto.

    What I hate is this attitude you have Scot, that Toronto has something better strictly by nature of the years.

    Big deal that there were only six teams Scot? I, quite eloquently, explained to you that there were many fans in the ROC that could give a care about the Habs or the Laffs.

    While there was a game only Saturday, and it was the only game in town, this attitude you and Jeff have, that the Laffs "built" HNIC is ridiculous.

    Tax dollars built it. The viewership of HNIC may have grown from a six team league, but that was 30 years ago.

    Get with the times guys. I have.
  43. dan vanman from vancouver, Canada writes: I do get what you are saying Scot, about the pre 67 era. I just know from experience that a good many of the guys I played with as a little kid didn't LOVE the two pre expansion Canadian teams, but had the Bruins, Rangers ,Wings and Hawks as their faves. My fave was the Bruins. as I said before.

    Out of say 10 of us, maybe 3-4 were Canadian team fans.

    We watched our teams on HNIC to see them beat the Laffs and Habs.

    Its all good though Scot...have a great day...
  44. D K from Canada writes: "Leafs realize their fate"

    Only took them 4 months. Not too bright.

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