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Whither Bargnani?

MICHAEL GRANGE

From Tuesday's Globe and Mail

Latest comment posted at 11:26 AM EDT 26/03/08

Raptors sophomore disappearing when struggling team needs him most ...Read the full article

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  1. Darko Dubajic from Mississauga, Canada writes: At least CB had enough common sense to "call out team..." after Denver game and not one in Cleveland. In that one, on deciding possession of the game ( out of time-out no less) he drives left to right to shoot across his body. If that is what he meant driving to the basket I'd rather he shoots his good old 18 ft jumper and just be done with. He did not do much better vs Denver where he got stripped of the ball couple of times. So, before calling out anybody start with your own game.
    Until we draft/ sign/ trade for/ any real slashers we should focus on our strength which is jump shooting. And no, that does not mean having JMoon sitting at the 3pt lane waiting for a pass , instead create a open shot for Kapono and the like. And SMitch should not have problem doing that considering that he played with Reggie who relied on any number of screens needed to create him a open shot. As a testament to his coaching ability or lack of it what we get out of time out in deciding moments of the game is Bosh's ugly looking shot.
  2. albert strauss from Toronto,Ontario, Canada writes: There is obviously an attitude problem and it would be nice if CB or his agent were honest and came out with it
  3. albert strauss from Toronto,Ontario, Canada writes: CORRECTION AB not CB
  4. albert strauss from Toronto,Ontario, Canada writes: The question comes to mind whether we have another "Vince" on our hands.
  5. Paulino Nunes from Toronto, Canada writes: AB with an attitude problem?

    You're way off the mark. The guy hates to lose and his frustration is plain to see when his efforts aren't working. Comparing him to VC? Please - he's already driven the basket more this year than VC did in his entire career.

    The guy's just having a hard time learning his "big man" role. He's learning the one of the most difficult positions in the game - one that typically takes a few years to learn. He'll be fine.

    But an attitude problem - you're way off, dude. If that was the issue, there is no way he's still starting for Sam Mitchell.
  6. A non-Imus from Canada writes: I can't wait to read how this lazy bust of a #1 draft pick will be blamed on Mitchell instead of Bryan. Wait for it...
  7. andy c from Canada writes: Paulino Nunes "But an attitude problem - you're way off, dude. If that was the issue, there is no way he's still starting for Sam Mitchell" Mike James, Jalen Rose, Rafer Alston. all started for the raptors and i'd say all three have more issues then bargs; anyone who's watched enough raptor games this year knows that rasho should be starting just like how hoffa was starting over donyell a few years ago.
  8. NikolaTesla -the genius who lit the world from Calgary, Canada writes: Granger is so off on this its not funny. The kid has played 1.5 yrs in the NBA and he is expected to be an all-star. The problems of the Raptors lay at the feet of Sam Michell. He can't coach. The system he has created is a piece of garbage, for 4 yrs i have seen the same off. system, players standing around the 3 point line not moving. Now Granger before you start calling a kid out, you better call Sam out.
  9. NikolaTesla -the genius who lit the world from Calgary, Canada writes: And anyone who thinks Rasho should be starting is clearly short on memory and do not understand this game. Rasho starting LOL.
  10. j k from Canada writes: Let's face it...if Bosh is all you're going to rely on, you're in big trouble...LeBron he ain't....he's a Robin, not a Batman.
    Blaming Bargnani for his draft position is ridiculous, HE didn't have anything to do with where he was chosen...ENOUGH...he was drafted for his "potential"...next year will be a better test...not so for Mitchell, Bosh or Ford...they are "coach of the year" hahaha, All Star Franchise player and "legend in his own mind", true starting point guard....
    Bargnani being blamed for the tentative passivity of the team while he is ON THE BENCH in the 4th q is typical...that is when the FRANCHISE player is supposed to earn his paycheck...not blame rookies or role players....
    Bosh has shown nothing new this year...his defense is still crap, his rebounding is worse than last year and he has not developed anything new (strength) to foil the increasingly long list of opposing forwards who have little difficulty stopping him....no top team has lost a game to the Raptors because of Bosh alone....no legitimate contending team lacks an All Star calibre WING player who can take over if required....
    Colangelo's smugness at the trade deadline about liking the "team as it is" was troubling...really, Bryan, really??
  11. G Sears from Canada, Canada writes: I couldn't agree more. Poor Sam keeps throwing Bargnani out there, and I assume he is under direct orders from the GM. If Bargnani doesn't get his act together soon, Colangelo should be fired. Outside Toronto, fans don't understand the media's love affair with Colangelo. The team has regressed this year.
  12. Bubba The Pas Huskies from The Pas Manitoba, Canada writes: Gotta agree with JK. CBs post game comments should have been coming from Colangelo to his coach and all the team, including and especially CB. Bosh has many improvements to be made to his game to be regarded as upper crust in the league. That said, his comments are important to the team. Even draft horses like Rasho can be encouraged to dunk the ball!
    Yes Bargs is having a poor sophmore year. Not unlike many 2nd year players. Relax on the kid, he is not the second coming of Ewing, nor has he stated to anyone that he's an all star. He's working hard, shows talent, and is impoving. Give him time. As to the team, natural tendencies to play complacent need to be challenged at every opportunity. You'd think the coach would be the leader in that department. In fact the one with the most emotion on the team seems to be Smitch. Thats worrisome.
    Better plays from Smitch and more tenacity from the players is the best we can hope for in this years team.
  13. Big Cayman from South Toronto, Canada writes: It's about time Grange calls out Il Mago. Nobody is blaming Bargs for where he was picked in the draft, he is being called out for his poor play. It's simple, he's played terrible in his sophmore year and it's arguable that he played better as a freshman. He is far behind in development compared to his sophmore classmates and blaming anyone else for where he is at is pretty dumb considering the support he has received in his development: his own coach direct from Italy, training camp in Italy, a European supporting cast and loyal fans at the ACC. So according to some people here then Bargnani needs a warm bottle of milk and a soother after practice. A first overall pick should be able to contribute right away, but Bargs was picked because fortunetellers thought that his upside is worth the wait. The problem that Grange points out is that Bargs does not solve in anyway the very real roster problems Raptors have. You have to laugh when poster like Nikola blame the coach when other starters Calderon, Bosh and Anthony Parker improve every year. I call those people quick to blame the coaching staff the willfully blind. If you're silly enough to put the blame on Mitchell then what is Gheradini getting paid for? I blame Colangelo for his very mediocre moves since becoming GM, they should have drafted someone else. I don't hear the Dirk comparisons anymore, not even from Swirsky. Maybe Bargs could be playing in the fourth quarter when he learns to play defense and then play it consistently, or learns to rebound, or learns to post up and draw a foul. I'm beginning to think that he can't do it, not because of physical ability, but because he doesn't want to, he doesn't have the desire or will to put in the very hard work it takes to be an effective player (which Dirk has in spades), he would rather float on the perimiter. We all love his sweet shot but when he's not hitting it (which happen a lot) 'The Magician' disappears.
  14. Bubba The Pas Huskies from The Pas Manitoba, Canada writes: With a topic so near and dear to your heart Big C, I thought you'd pull a Rojer and be first out of the blocks. Where's the love? Does AB have an upside? Of course. Did BC take a flyer on the kid with a long term view for the Raps? Think so. Did others (CB, Parker) improve because of their own abilities and not because of tepid coaching? I remember Kapono's signing and the enthusiasm generated. Not quite what we thought, with Bosh going down for long terms and teams figuring out quickly that covering K tight and leaving Moon open was money. And Bosh ain't Shaq for the easy inside outside game. AB can't be confident in his NBA game, just like TJ currently. Both have confidence issues (for different reasons) but need to work through them. I am more willing to trade TJ for better players and continue with the upside potential of a 7' who can shoot and will improve his inside game. Not to sound like a broken record, but players wear out a coach after a few years. Smitch has been in TO for 4 years and was given an extension cus of the unexpected results last year in the regular season. The teams flaws were laid bare by the Nets in the first round. I believe Smitch will be gone for a more seasoned coach that's BCs man. Easier to change the coach that continue wholesale changes on the team. The core is there, including (hopefully) and improving AB. I think BC is more impatient than all of us but is in the drivers seat for a reason. Don't throw him under the bus too cus of a poor draft year and leaning to find a long term big for the team... The team is improving, will be lucky to get through the first round but is headed in the right direction. Patience...
  15. CLEMENT CHAN from Mississauga, Canada writes: Grange's closing: "You can't blame Bargnani for what Bosh said was a collective loss of nerve down the stretch over the past couple of games. That's because he wasn't on the floor, which says everything." This is one of the not so good closing from MG's good articles. MG is trying too hard to impress this time. Bargnani doesn’t deserve that, especially when he is showing very promising signs of improvement lately. Furthermore, Mitchell is no God, even Mitchell knows he is just putting his bets on for not letting AB play in the forth quarter. How can that "says everything?" Anyway, Bosh is right about the team not being confident enough to get some shots at crunch time. I personally feel that that is more of a culture thing of the team. First, players are used to letting the ball to Bosh at late game time. Second, players are generally too humble and too much afraid of being pointed with fingers (literally or mentally) if they do not shoot in at critical times. This is a big psychologically barrier to the raps to put up a good late game show, evidently the raptor situation. I consider that the head coach should do a better job in this aspect. Mitchell, yelling at players or being too emotional may help in most/some of the time, but at crunch time, what's inside the player's mind/heart will override. Work on this! If the situation persists, probably Colangelo will bring in a new calmer coach next season to confirm whether or not his team is that bad.
  16. Big Cayman from South Toronto, Canada writes: I can't disagree with much of what you wrote Bubs. But I don't respect the direction that Colangelo is taking the team. Bargnani is unfortunately the crown jewel that Colangelo used to market his flawed Euro philosophy. He tried selling us that this team would run like the Suns, he made his press releases in Italian only he overlooked better qualified draft picks and traded away Charlie V and I'm pretty sure the thought crossed his mind that if he kept Mitchell on it would keep the focus off of his own questionable decisions, and its working. You still hear the brainless talk about how Colangelo finds diamonds in the rough, who exactly has he acquired that is a diamond? Bargnani was over estimated from the beginning. Instead of searching the backwater Euroleagues for the next Dirk he should be focussing on the basketball factories of the NCAA, he should be dumping our dead weight, and he shouldn't be signing slow moving senior citizens in the twilight of their careers. As for Bargnani, he can stay, he's not a bust in the true meaning of the word (he's not worthy of a 1st overall either). May as well try and make something out of him or make him into a role player. At this point I couldn't see any other team wanting to give up something for him. But he is a defensive liability and this is only mitigated when he's draining 3s. What's more is that as evidenced by this thread, people are desperately trying to pin Il Mago's terrible season on other people. At what point does personal responsibility come into play? He makes too many basic basketball mistakes to even begin to blame others on his poor production. He's not understanding the instruction or he has not completely internalized the changes he needs to make to improve his game. I think comparing Kapono is not the same, he wasn't a wasted 1st overall draft pick he was taken for his shooting prowess and his percentages are acceptable.
  17. Glen Morrison from Canada writes: Raps need Ron Artest to whoop Bargnani into shape
  18. Bubba The Pas Huskies from The Pas Manitoba, Canada writes: You would think that BC, being involved with the basketball scene for years, with tutelage from his dad, and seeing the success of the Suns, would have an intimate knowledge of what is available in the States system and what is affordable. This is year 2 of the BC reign in Raptorland. The first year was blowing it up, getting rid of deadwood and trying to make a silk purse from a sows ear. But I thought he did well, bringing in a centre (albeit old), getting Hump for nothing, Parker, TJ for CV (a draw or a small minus) and keeping JC & CB. Bringing in Kapono was at the time a positive with the thought of loading up on 3s. It may still play out.
    I see this year as a waiting period, with expiring contracts and increased opportunities for bringing in another (or two) prime first stringers... its gonna happen, only not fast enough for most of us... yeah I know, patience...
  19. andy c from Canada writes: am i the only one who thought the TJ trade was a decent trade at the time? obviously if the raps or anyone else knew (besides rog) that jose would be in allstar conversations this year i'm sure that trade would not have taken place. Big C, i think BC is batting around .500 he's made some decent moves (parker, garbo pre injury, hump, delfino) and he's put up some stinkers (fred jones-dixon-primo vortex of faliure, kopono, bargs, baston). i'm on the fence in regards to the tj move (charlie's not even starting for the bucks) and rasho trade (trading a team cancer in Ewilliams for 8mil in cap filler who can at least play)
  20. ente EighteenEightyEight from Toronto, Canada writes: Ummm, MG is our Italian Asst. GM, not a coach... he has little to do with AB's development or lack thereof.

    Personally, I see lots of improvement in AB this year, although overall he's mightlily inconsistent, and his scoring is way down. This year he actually gets into the paint this year and has been tasked with some tough defensive assignments at times. Sometimes he handles these well, sometimes he doesn't. But last year he played as a power foward, this year as a center. These aren't overnight lessons to learn. And AB has to work hard this summer to make the next step up in his development.

    Overall, we're regressing because everyone else has taken a mightly step forward in our division. Last year we swept Boston, this year, not so much...

    BC didn't make any moves this year because we have our big salary ballasts coming this summer and not before. I do think this summer we'll see some big adjustments made, as we'll have lots of saleable assets.

    This team in general has been oversold on its potential. We're at best a mid-table eastern power, which isn't saying much. But like any team in the NBA a tweak here and a tweak there and all of a sudden its a new game...
  21. Larry Boutilier from Sydney, Canada writes: The only hope for the Raps is to sign CANDACE Parker right away!!!!!
  22. Big Cayman from South Toronto, Canada writes: Bubba you would think so, but I think it was more a case of riding coat-tails rather than being the second coming of his dad, I mean you have to question his judgement when the Suns ownership had no problem letting him speak to the Raps ownership group while he was under contract. It was well reported in the US sports media at the time that BC and the Suns ownership did not see eye to eye on the direction the franchise should take, that alone should have tempered the hype associated with his coming to Toronto. But hey now that most of us have come back down to Earth why not be cautiously optimistic. I am only really concerned that BC might be too ego driven and admit a mistake and press on in spite of damage to the franchise. I don't believe he's as committed to winning as he should be but that's a little speculative on my part. There really is no reason for him to change though because Toronto sports fans and media alike have adulated him and given him a free ride up to this point. If Bargs is Il Mago then Colangelo is The Grand Illusionist ...Andy even I was against getting rid of CV, I voiced it on these threads because not only had he proven his critics wrong he was fitting in with CB and improving his already versatile game. If he was still here he'd be starting.
  23. Larry Boutilier from Sydney, Canada writes: Trade Bargs for Candace Parker; that girl GOT GAME!!!!
  24. Big Cayman from South Toronto, Canada writes: "ente EighteenEightyEight from Toronto, Canada writes: Ummm, MG is our Italian Asst. GM, not a coach... he has little to do with AB's development or lack thereof." Quite disengenuous or at least uninformed. Gheradini brought Italy into the modern age of Basketball and his indoctrination of Italian coaches still has influence countrywide. His hands on success with B Triviso to which he alone courted and convinced Bargnani to come and play for prove the connection and development between Andrea and Gheradini. From the Hoopstyle interview with Gherardini: ..."When was the first time you saw him play? You brought him from Rome to Treviso, right? MG: It was like four years and a half ago. He was playing for Stella Azzurra in B2 league. I was impressed with his height, but also how smooth he played. You could tell he was special. I watched him closely, met the family and convinced him after a long flirtation."... If Bargnani was not prepared well enough for the NBA then Benetton Treviso has to take some of the blame and that franchise was under the direct stewardship of Gherardini. To then pretend that there isn't anymore commuication nor been influence between the two by making a distinction between GM and coach in this instance is misleading.
  25. NikolaTesla -the genius who lit the world from Big C, Canada writes: Big C - I have no problem with Grange calling out Bargnani but Sam Mitchell should be called out first. Sam doesn't need more scapegoats or excuses anymore, its time a critical eye is pointed at our system and game management.

    Just consider yourself lucky Brian didn't pull a MJ and draft Adam Morrison? Andrea was the right pick and it will take another 2 years before i even consider calling him a bust.

    Let's remember before anyone starts calling out BC...

    02-2003 : 24-58
    03-2004 : 33-49
    04-2005 : 33-49
    05-2006 : 27-55
    06-2007 : 47-35 (BC)
    07-2008 : 35-35 (BC)

    A hell of a lot better then the previous 4 yrs before BC
  26. Optimistically Cynical from Toronto, Canada writes: The Bargs apologists are too funny.

    The guy is shooting < 40% this year .... You do realize this is downright pathetic for a guy who was drafted primarily for his "great shooting ability"

    He's shooting < 50% on layups and dunks .... It's blatantly obvious he's not athletic enough to finish at the rim. Every game you will see him make a desperate flip for a layup instead of adjusting in the air and initiating contact (and hence drawing fouls)

    He's shooting ~35% from 5 feet to the 3 point line .... Terrible.

    His PER is ~ 10.7

    The worrisome part is he has shown no statistical improvement from last year.
    - FG% is down a lot
    - 3PT% is the same
    - Rebound rate is identical (FYI he's in the bottom 10% for rebounds/48 minutes for all PF's and Centers)
    - Free throw rate is the same .... he only gets ~ 1 free throw for every 6 field goal attempts. This is really, really bad for a 7 footer.
    - Help defense is non existent

    It's funny that everyone also uses the "he's only 22" excuse. The NBA is a young mans league. He's 1 year younger than Bosh, who is already a 3 time all star and basically carries the fortunes of the franchise. Aldridge is 22 and he's averaging 17/8 on a team that has a better record than we do in a tougher conference. Roy is an all star at 23. Bron holds a franchise scoring record at 23. D.Howard is 22. Chris Paul is 22 and will finish in the top 3 in MVP voting. Deron Williams last year as a 22 year old carried his team to the 3rd round of the playoffs, and also blasted Okur and Kirilenko in public for disappearing vs the Spurs.

    22 is old enough to at the very list contribute a heck of a lot more than a 10.7 PER and average 11/4 on < 40% shooting
  27. Optimistically Cynical from Toronto, Canada writes: And to the people who say Bargs has been "playing better lately and doesn't deserve this criticism"

    You do realize that in the 10 games that Bosh was out - and apparently not there to "steal shots from Bargs" and when Bargs could play his "natural" position at the 4 whle Rasho played Center, IL MAGO produced

    28 mins/game
    11.2 points
    34.8% FG%
    30.8% 3pt%
    3.9 rebs

    He played even worse when Bosh was out, instead of rising to the occasion.
  28. Big Cayman from South Toronto, Canada writes: Aldridge was the right pick, this was confirmed by CB who supported it, and Colangelo let him slip through our fingers. Morrison was not considered seriously but Lamarcus was, it was written about in the sporting media including the Globe and Mail

    theglobeandmail.com?userURL=http://www.theglobeandmail.com%2Fservlet%2Fstory%2FRTGAM.20060627.wraps27%2FBNStory%2FSports%2F&ord=88911322&brand=theglobeandmail&forcelogin=true

    ...In the end that was the choice before the great GM, nobody else. Discussing anyone else is academic. Gheradini was already hired at this point so let's stop pretending that Gheradini has an objective view when it comes to Euro's. He's actually a consultant for basketball organizations in Europe, which IMO, if its in an official capacity, could be viewed as a conflict of interest in his role in the Raps org. In any event it was Colangelos responsibility to draft what's best for the Raptors instead of trying to make himself look good by marketing the team as the United Colours of Benetton Treviso for the rest of the world.
  29. Bubba The Pas Huskies from The Pas Manitoba, Canada writes: OctoMan, can't argue with your stats man, you got the goods on AB alright. Say, any of those allstars been switched to centre to learn (apparently) one of the hardest positions to play? I'm one of those damn apoligists who look beyound this season. Was watching Raps TV this pm, with a bunch of the Raps extolling the virtues of the Pistons and how long they have been together. I hope that AB will be a long term solid find for the Raps. Maybe not the All Star that many made him out to be (thus all the angst from the First Pick Watchers...) but serviceable.
    Aldridge is really really good. And hindsight is always perfect. I think the Raps still have a GM who knows what he wants and is aggressive enough to go get it. Kapono was phoned by BC 1 minute after being eligible so his track record is consistent with going hard for what he thinks the team needs.
    Sorry. (That's apologist humour... :)
  30. Jim Terrets from Vancouver, writes: Optimistically Cynical, your attack on Bargnani is completely baseless and does not stand up to the facts.

    First of all, Bargnani's stats are largely the same as last year. Yes, his FG% is down, but its not "down a lot" as you allege, it's down by around 3.5%. If you consider the amount of shots he takes its the equivalent of missing around 30 more shots, which is not a drastic fall off. Yes his FT's could be higher but you can say that for all the Raptors save Bosh and TJ.

    Second, last year Bargnani was coming off the bench and this year he is starting and facing higher quality opposition. Overall his minutes are around the same so he's playing the same minutes against better players. So it's not surprising that his numbers haven't taken a significant jump upwards.

    Third of all, its ridiculous to compare Bargnani against some of the most special players in the NBA. You're cherry picking comparisons. Lots of players pale in comparison to LeBron and Chris Paul. Why not say Barganani sucks in comparison to Michael Jordan? It's just as valid.

    Fourth, Aldridge plays PF and does not shoot three's. He was more "NBA ready" than Bargnani but does not have Bargnani's potential down the road. And that's where Colangelo is looking, 3-5 years from now when the Raptors are ready to challenge for a title. It takes time to build a team -- even with LeBron the Cavs are not going to win a title this year unless something drastic happens to the other teams.

    You are far too impatient. Sure Bargnani is not developing as fast as many had hoped, but it takes time to build a winner and some players also take more time to develop. Dirk Nowitzki didn't set the league on fire when he arrived in Dallas. The fans there were saying exactly the same things about Dirk that some of you are now saying about Bargnani.
  31. albert strauss from Toronto,Ontario, Canada writes: The truth is now coming out and it does not reflect the Raps as a powerhouse:- The coach is incompetent and does not know enough about strategy. Bosh is a manufactured "all star" and is only called as such because he s the best we have and works hard. AB is a flop and was overhyped (best prospect in Europe). Parker, Moon and Dofino are good workman like players. The 2 PG s have promise but need some direction from our incompetent coach. They have potential but are the only ones who generate argument. Housecleaning order - start with the coach. He has the most influence. Next go after a real star to complement Bosh. Straighten out both PG s. and then see what Jay Triano can do with this crew Oh I forgot. Get rid of that tiresome shill Swirsky
  32. albert strauss from Toronto,Ontario, Canada writes: More truth:- As long as Toronto is in Canada (indefinitely I hope) an American star will never have his heart and soul in playing here . It is too bad but I think that is the case. Look at the number of high picks we have had who have moved on. Vince actually was the exceeption but you heard his comment that he did not always put out.
  33. Optimistically Cynical from Toronto, Canada writes: In his 3rd year, Dirk was 22 years old and averaged 22/9 and was a huge factor in an upstart Dallas team shocking Utah in the 1st round.

    Bargs is nowhere near Dirks development pace.

    Dirks rebounds/48 minutes

    Year 1, age 20: 8.2
    Year 2, age 21: 8.6
    Year 3, age 22: 11.6
    Year 4, age 23: 12.6

    Andrea rebounds/48 minutes
    Year 1, age 21: 7.5
    Year 2, age 22: 7.4

    Lets see if he takes a huge leap next year. The bottom line is right now he's in the bottom 10% of all rebounders for PF's & C's. That's a fact.

    How was Aldridge more "NBA ready"? He's the same age and played on a poorly coached U of Texas team whereas Bargs came out of a respected pro league. He might have been a little more NBA ready, but it's certainly not night and day.

    And how am I "being baseless and not standing up to the facts"

    Are any of the stats posted lies?

    His TS% last year was 54.6%. This year it's 49.9%. That's a massive decline.

    My apologies for comparing a 1st overall pick to other players drafted in the top 5 this decade. I didn't realize that was unreasonable.

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