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Raptors salvage some pride

MICHAEL GRANGE

Associated Press

Latest comment posted at 2:34 PM EST 25/01/08

Calderon helps Toronto avoid season sweep against Boston ...Read the full article

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  1. Roger S from Canada writes: Jose for MVP!!! Beat Celtics at Boston, OMG!!!

    Jose is the man!!!

    I am laughing at the guys who have been a55 kissing Rondo in this board, the names including andy C, Yetu and Big C, they have NO Clue! And where is the guy who ranked Jose next to Feton?

    Jose the all star!
  2. C Ta from Richmond Hill, Canada writes: If Doc Rivers doesn't select Jose Calderon as a back-up PG in New Orleans after that stellar performance tonight, then he has "NO Clue!" as Roger so eloquently stated. A sloppy game with an exciting finish, it certainly got my adrenalin pumping! Loved Sam Mitchell's double machine gun celebratory pose!
  3. JOHN PALANDRA from Toronto, Canada writes: Ok roger before you release in your pants, none of those people you singled out have ever said anything negative about Jose, they just dont have the same admiration that you do for him. I think Jose is fantastic, but the raps still desperately miss TJ, despite what you think. This game should not have been as close as it was, thankfully they were able to squeek it out. The defensive rebounding was pitifull in the last 5 minutes and certainly needs to be addressed.
  4. Roger S from Canada writes: John let me tell you, the guy who can tell the potential and future is smart guy; the guy who appreciates what is going on is ordinary people; and last, the guy refuses to admit the fact is stupid. I don't know about you, but at least one of those names I am sure in the third category.

    I didn't mention TJ Ford. Since you still live in the past, I'd say this team needs a backup PG for sure, but if you have one of the best PGs in the league, you don't need that TJ who jacked up garbage points just wanted to win back starting position. Let me say that, when TJ is playing under control, he is a great back up to Jose; otherwise, he is negative. It'd be better for Raptors to go with that European guy they have next year as a back up.
  5. dan vanman from Canada writes: Sorry John, have to agree with Roger. Jose this year has made TJ dispensable, and created an interesting problem for Coleangelo. TJ should take all the time he needs to get healthy, then they should trade him. You don't need two starters, and the money can be spent on a crashing big man, one of the few things this team is lacking. Great win in Boston guys...keep it up.
  6. Roger S from Canada writes: Thanks Dan, I think more and more people will be with us. If there are right guys around him, Jose will be one of great point guards in the league history. He is becoming next Nash/Stockton.
  7. Rich Chan from Vancouver, Canada writes: Okay, here's the situation. I completely agree that Jose is the man and deserves to start ahead of TJ when TJ does come back, but Roger must this post turn into a Jose vs. TJ controversy again? We already know that Jose is better fit for Toronto than TJ is, so let's just leave it at that and move on. My problem with not having TJ is that we don't have a second point guard to go too. I agree with trading TJ once he gets better as he's always injury prone with all the stingers, however, we do need another steady point guard to back up Calderon now. How about Damon Stoudamire. It personally would be nice to have Damon back with the Raptors after so long, for nostalgic purposes.
  8. Cyrus Of Persia from Canada writes: What a game. When they fell back by 7 in the late third or early fourth, I forget which, I thought they would come close but fall short. I couldn't believe it when the Celts missed the last TWO shots (thanks to a 16th offensive rebound), given their fortunes with the Raps gifts of ORs all night.

    This team is one fun ride. All those 3-balls tonight, the team sharing the load, the play off the bench. All great.

    Stoudamire would be a really interesting ingredient, Rich Chan.
  9. andy c from Canada writes: John P; i think it's to late :P Missed the game but i'm glad the see the raps won. rog, please stop living in the past. most of us here (including myself) have already admitted that the starter's job is calderon's until TJ can play at a high level again (then we can fire up the debate PG to you hearts content). until that time comes the starter's job is jose's to lose; quick question for the guys who saw the game. did the 18 raptor turnovers come from sloppy play, aggressive defense or a bit of both?; judging from the box and grange's postgame it's good to see bargs back. i guess those few days off and some extra practice did some good. hopefully he can build on today's game.
  10. mike r from Southern Ontario, Canada writes: GO RAPTORS!!!! Big win tonight! I thought they could've won it more handily had they limited their turnovers, but even turning the ball over a lot and without making too many defensive stops they still managed to pull it off! I'm pretty glad to see they weren't swept by the Celtics, here's hoping they can ride on this momentum! The rest of their schedule isn't as tough as it's been so far, so I think they do have a good chance of staying around the middle of the conference in time for the playoffs
  11. Jason J from Markham, Canada writes: You have to admire Ray Allen for the times and the way he gets rebounds, one in the secodn half he ran such a long distance almost from the arch, and another one just before the final buzzer in the paint among so many Raptors Bigs ...

    Could have been an easier win should they not give up so many rebounds ...
  12. C Ta from Richmond Hill, Canada writes: I've been a long-time admirer of Ray Allen's skills, though I don't get to see him play much. That guy is deadly, and I thought for sure he was gonna plant another dagger.

    Tonight's game was the "Raptor's style" ball that we used to see much more of last season. As viable a scoring option Chris Bosh is, I much prefer the swing-extra-pass-open-look-3-pointer that was a hallmark of our offense. Would've handled the Nets in the playoffs much better doing that instead of force feeding Bosh, 'cause he's not always effective as great as he is. When will the MVP chants start up again?

    CB4 was fumbling the ball terribly, much more than usual. 7 turnovers?! I notice that he and Jose lick their fingers a lot but could never figure out why. Is it to get a better grip on the ball? It's a disgusting habit to me, but they're our best two players so it probably helps whatever the reason!
  13. JOHN PALANDRA from Toronto, Canada writes: Roger and Dan please read my original post clearly. I never said who should start and who should be the backup. Frankly i dont care who starts because thats a decision for the coaches and we all have to live with it. What i did say, and have been saying all along is that the raptors need both in order to be successfull. Why do you think the team is struggling more this year then last year? Why do you think the bench isnt as productive this year? Could it be because they dont have the same depth at point guard? Whether you like him or not TJ creates off the dribble and draws double teams. He is a pesky defender and the tandem was deadly last season. Last year the raps had consistent PG production from both units and it was the difference that made them division champs.
  14. Vasili Yeremenko from Canada writes: Terrible coaching by Rivers. Caldron abused Rondo all game and he subbed him to guard him that last play. Also the Cs should have went to KG against Bosch instead of Ppierce. Bosch is not yet the player KG is. In a way the Raptors are better when the spread the floor and penetrate than pound it in to CB.

    The Celtics need to solve the pointguard problem because these guys will be in the playoffs: Tony Parker, Steve Nash, Billups, Calderon, etc, etc.
  15. ImTheOne TellingYouHowItIs from Canada writes: Calderon certainly has played well this year, probably above most peoples expectations and maybe TJ going down is a blessing in disguise. I love TJ as much as the next guy and still think he is a tremendous ball player however I am starting to think that 2 starting point guards just doesn't make sense, especially tying so much of our money up in two guys playing the same position. We could use TJ badly but that wouldn't solve the problem that both these guys are starters and having them both on the same team is not doing them any justice. As of right now I go with Calderon only for the fact he has shown health, whereas TJ's longterm bball health looks rather grim. Unfortunately it will be a little tough dealing TJ right now so we will just have to deal with it until TJ is back at it 100%.

    As for Jose getting the All-Star nod, I look at the Eastern Conference and feel that if the coaches go by position and want to fill in 2 point guards he has a decent chance of making it especially if the fans vote in Kidd or Billups to start at point. He deserves it but so do a lot of other players.
  16. dan vanman from vancouver, Canada writes: John...I hear you, and I see your point about last year versus this one.

    But Jose has grown a great deal since being the starter. He deserves to be the starter. His teammates love him in that role.

    TJ will be fine when healthy. I just think you can get a young up and comer who is almost as good, and spread around the beaucoup bucks TJ makes to make the team deeper, and able to play in those really physical games.

    Apart from CB4, they don't have anyone starting who likes to bang. That could haunt them in the playoffs. Someone a little meaner than Barney...
  17. albert strauss from Toronto,Ontario, Canada writes: Most comments have overlooked the fact that there was a great win and focussed on the PG non issue. It is not often that the current Celtd can be caught out but when they can , they must be taken. Absent the turnovers (excitement) this was a splendid team effort with full time cocentration and discipline. Most commendable
  18. albert strauss from Toronto,Ontario, Canada writes: PS: Resin powder and sweat are the best ingredients for sticky fingers AAS
  19. Roger S from Canada writes: Besides Jose, I should state certainly this is s team win for Raptors. AP, Andrea, Bosh, Delfino all stepped up and played decent game. Especially it shows if Andrea plays better, the life for Raptors is a lot easier, and they have abilities to beat the best team in the NBA.

    Some tasks left for BC and Sam. No 1 they need a solid plan to develop Andrea; No 2 they need a glue guy for rebound and tough defense; and last one, they need to solve this backup PG ASAP. I think Delfino is the guy for rest of the season, somebody, please call BC (not Sam).

    Of course, Jose Calderon deserves another spot for All Star Game along with Bosh. Go Raptors Go!!!
  20. albert strauss from Toronto,Ontario, Canada writes: The classic dynasty is often recognized by a guard. usually a point guard but sometimes a scorer eg Knicks - Frazier; Lakers - West; Celtics - Cousy and so on . Raptors ????? Why wait for the championship - argue now
  21. Joseph Daniel from Canada writes: OMG! are you guys insane? did you watch the same game I did? Do you guys actually beleive the Raps made a statement with that game? the only statement they made is they have to shoot over 70% from 3pt range. Like that is going to happen on a regular basis. Boston outplayed, YES OUTPLAYED the raps in almost every way. IF you play that same game over and over boston will win 90% of those games. There is no way any team can shoot that many three's (albeit wide open looks) consistantly. The Raps were 1, 3pt. miss from losing that game. Positives from that game was the ball movement, jose's driving to the lane, and Bargs finally showing some life. I really liked the passes Bargs made, but not too crazy about his rebounding in the second half. He is still a work in progress, but at least he seems to perhaps finally be turning a corner.
  22. Sean M. from Canada writes: I have to comment on the quality of the report by Grange. The reporting covers the game in an appropriate manner, warts and all, and really captures the spirit of the event. Articles like this keep me coming back for more!
  23. Allan Wexler from Toronto, Canada writes: I tend to agree with Joseph. This game proved to me that, without a doubt, the Celtics are a better team than the Raptors, as of today. The Raptors need to shoot the lights out to escape with a victory. They turned the ball over too much and weren't able to control the defensive boards. Until they can rebound better, they will not be as good as the Celtics. Jose was terrific but Anthony Parker should be getting some love in these posts, because he was equally as good and did a terrific job defending. I thought Rondo hurt Jose a lot in the first half, but not nearly as much in the second. TJ returning is the answer to the guard situation. I'm not a Stoudemire fan. Damon can't defend (never could) and isn't the offensive player he once was. He's been a loser everywhere he's gone.
  24. Yertu Damkule from Canada writes: wow, amazing how many people post after wins, especially when they have a 'cause' to push. big surprise to find you on here, rog, crusading for your boy. hey, i can't blame you, jose played great - which is something all of use supposed jose-haters have said each & every time he's done so, which is quite often. what we don't do is blindly assume that the team is better off w/o TJ. hey, maybe we're wrong, but the longterm fortunes of this team are dependent on having two reliable PGs. now, as for the game - agree with most of the posters, it was great win against a great team on the road. that being said, i'm really quite surprised they pulled off the win. other than shooting, they didn't play well. many, many unforced TO's (a poster asked if the TO's were forced by the celts D: some were, but the majority were simply careless passes or not taking care of the ball), far too many offensive rebounds given up, and NO fast break points - basically, the raps made it about as difficult on themselves as possible (gave the ball away & didn't give themselves 'easy' opportunities). shooting almost 60% from the field (& 70% from 3) helps. i'm not sure what moon's final numbers looked like, but there's a reason he wasn't on the floor at the end. he seemed intimidated to take it into the paint, settling for jumpers...of course, if he makes those jumpers, no big deal. but it's not the strongest part of his game, he doesn't have good form, and like many leapers, tries to get too high before releasing, which throws off the timing of his shot. and bargs - what can you say? probably his best game of the season, didn't force things, played adequate, at times even good, D, rebounded well (in the 1st half, at least), and stayed out of foul trouble. also showed good awareness with the ball & found the open man - it's a good sign that he didn't hesitate with the ball, he either shot (if open), or dished (he even drove once or twice - nice).
  25. Yertu Damkule from Canada writes: allan - was there doubt before this game? and the argument can go both ways - yes, the raps shot the lights out, but they are one of (if not the) best shooting team in the league, and they're also one of the best teams in the league at taking care of the ball. both stats were out of the ordinary this game (one in their favour, the other not), so while some can argue that they got lucky & shot really well & that's why they won, you could also argue that they're not overly likely to turn the ball over so often, be outscored so badly in the paint, or be shut out in terms of fastbreak pts. so, to be able to win despite these negatives shows great character & resolve - they did just enough to get the win. raptor teams of the past would have done just well enough to make it a close loss. we've been saying for a couple years now that they're still learning how to win, and this was a game that showed that they're starting to get it...that despite playing a far less than perfect game, they can compete. whether they 'should; have lost is irrelevant - they didn't. there have been numerous games this season (and last) in which they've outplayed their opponent but were unable to secure a victory. i'm more than happy to see that they've reached a point where they can be the team that's outplayed, yet walk away w/ the W.
  26. Joseph Daniel from Canada writes: Thanks for returning me back to earth yertu. I just couldn't hack it anymore. All the love last night in the post game from the Minions who work for MLSE and "the statement game" for the raps. Then I find all the Jose Love this morning from certain individuals. We really needed a reality check. Yeah it was a nice win but there are a lot of flaws. But at least it seems that perhaps Bargs may be showing some signs of coming out of his funk. So great W, next up the Bucks.
    Another team with inside presence.
  27. Drew Shrigley from Canada writes: First of all,
    I am dissapointed in the Globe for running a headline like this.

    After a night when the Raps beat the best team in the league, why not run something a little more positive instead of "Salvage some pride"

    It was a true test for the Raps, who finally played the Celts when all cylinders were firing and guys were healthy.

    No wonder Sam Mitchell hates ya'll.
  28. Wasabi Jones from Canada writes: A sloppy but exciting game. Great performances by Calderon, Parker and Delfino!
  29. L. C. from Canada writes: It was a great game. Congrats on Raptor avoiding the sweep, and pull out a win at Boston (best team this year). Jose, you are the man. People should know TJ and Jose are exactly the same based on measure of effectiveness. So, we shouldn`t be surprise Jose is such an all star. I remember Mitchell said the reason why TJ is the usual starter is just because TJ salary is higher. They are both strong player, and I like them both. Unfortunately, TJ is suffering with some health issues, I just hope he can be back to roster soon. IMO, Juan is ok, but he is not a point guard and he can`t really create a lot of plays in the game. He has the quickness and ball control, but lack of toughness.
    We need a back up PG, a good one that can take off 10 to 15 mins off Jose before TJ is healthy enough to go back to the line up.
  30. Stevie Dee from Canada writes: Wow, After a game like that, all we can do is revive the TJ debate? Roger, for all you talk about knowing the game, you've clearly steered this discussion towards the most obvious part of the game. Jose came up huge. Yup, agreed, let's move on. Guys, what hit me like a brick wall watching this game is Barg's performance. The Raps erased a 10 point deficit and took a lead in the first half with Bosh on the bench. Granted, so was Garnett, but Barg's stepped up HUGE during that period!!! 6 boards at half time and a stat line that included points, 7 rebounds and 6 assists. I saw him force a couple of shots in the second half but, overall, could we really expect anything more out of him? Now, before all the criticism comes that this is one game and we can't take anything away from it...I will acknowledge thta it is only one game BUT, as someone said above, it shows that Barg's knows what he needs to do. As I said in some earlier comments, he has been asked to totally change his game. This is evidence that he can. Also, I absolutely loved his comments at half-time when Leo was trying to heap praise for his first half performance. To paraphrase he noted that they still need to play hard in the second half, that, in general, he's been playing poorly and needs to play better and so didn't want talk about his good first half performance. Really, it was a humble, focused approach. Last on Barg's, while his offense has clearly struggled, his defensive positioning HAS been steadily improving. He closed down lanes well, was in good position to get defensive boards, and even made a nice block down low. All positives. To be continued...
  31. Stevie Dee from Canada writes: Part 2,

    As for the rest of the game, our ball movement and shooting clearly saved us. As for the turnovers (in response to Andy C's question), the turnovers where a combination of things; (1) Bosh couldn't seem to get a handle on the ball (2) there was a lot more driving and dishing to rolling players (by Delfino, Parker and especially Calderon). Many of those passes were interecepted, but I view this as a positive development in the Raps overall game (the aggressive drives, not the resulting TO's ;) ). Calderon had a couple of uncharacteristic bad drives where he lost the ball, and a couple more where he left his feet in the key and a weak pass was intercepted. Not criticizing here, he played such a big, big game.

    Anyway, cheers guys, back to work!!!
  32. A non-Imus from Canada writes: Big deal they beat the Celtics on the road. If it wasn't for Sam Mitchell, the Raptors would be 42-0.
  33. HC Bargs from Canada writes: Great win for the Raps! Jose, Carlos, AP, Chris and Bargs had trememndous games. But, boy oh boy, they need some SERIOUS rebounding help. BC needs to do something about that ASAP!
  34. john macdonald from Fredericton NB., Canada writes: Been absent from this comment section for a long time. I will give some thought on what I think. TJ getting hurt is not a blessing in disguise, yes Jose has developed much more, but think about this, if the raps can't trade TJ, and Jose wants a lot of cash in the offseason, we will have to let Jose go. And that would be devasting. I have been a long time supporter of TJ but given Jose's play since TJ's injury I have to say I was wrong, I admitt it, Jose is the superior true PG. I'm man enough and big enough to admitt that I was wrong. But that being said Jose and a no body for a backup will not get the raps to the next level. I'm going to give a number of trade possiblilities that might work, first is TJ to the Cav's for Varejao and maybe another player (maybe Eric Snow) or a couple of draft picks. This could be a possiblity because they are so desparate for a decent PG. Then again I would hate to trade TJ to another east team. How about to Miami for Haslem and a future draft pick or something? Lord know's Miami needs a decent PG that can play at a high level. Now we get into what's out west. TJ to Houston for Mike James, draft picks. This could work cause James had a good year with the raps, his contract isn't much longer, and the raps would be getting some draft picks. TJ to the Blazers for a combo of any of these players Steve Blake, Channing Frye, Sergio Rod, Raef Lafrentz (salary cap relief), Darius Miles (salary cap relief). I would love to see Sergio Rod as Jose's backup, and having a player like Channing Frye to sub in for Bosh would also be a big plus, not to mention the salary cap space that Lafrentz and Miles could clear in the near future. This one would never happen but how about straight up TJ to the Suns for Barbosa. TJ to the Griz for Kyle Lowry and Mike Miller. TJ to the clipps for Sam Cassell and a draft pick, you get salary cap relief in the future and Sam would do much better as a backup. Let me know what you think.
  35. Stevie Dee from Canada writes: We have a Johnny Mac siting. Welcome back!!! As for your trade possibilities, there aren't many that I would trade TJ for. Any trade where we get Eric Snow back is horrible in my books. Why that guy is in the NBA is beyond me, he's not quick, can't dribble well, and he can't hit the broad side of a barn. In your other situations, we're giving up a point guard with all-star potential that can improve our team in so many areas (creating open looks, defensive pressure, scoring) for a one dimensional rebounder (i.e. Varejao). Mike James is not a fit for this team. The problem with TJ now is that, too often, he looks to get his regardless of whether the shot is there. Mike James is this problem x10. Plus, he burned a lot of bridges when he left. The Portland options are intriguing, but do you really think that they toy with that young team when they're winning the way they are. I know that they want to move Roy to SG, but why not just draft a PG, all other positions for them are set. I don't see them doing a trade. Guys, I will FULLY acknowledge how well Jose is playing. Just remember that he and TJ have very different skill sets and having them both play 25 minutes a game gives the Raps a real advantage. Getting a banger isn't that tough, getting 2 PG's with the skill of Jose and TJ isn't. And, much as I appreciate Jose's offensive game, his defense has got more holes than swiss cheese right now. Lol, I've never seen a guy expend more energy on D and accomplish so little!!!! There JMac, now you've done it, you've got me to weigh in on this bloody Ford / Calderon debate!!!! Blast you!!!! ;)
  36. Joseph Daniel from Canada writes: John Mac welcome back we have missed your posts!. Not you too now feeding the Rog's lust for Jose. There is no way BC trades TJ Ford at this point in the season especially not Cleveland. They know he will come back and play this year. As for next year, they do have Roko coming over so if Calderon gets same money as TJ , and they feel like Roko is ready to take on the backup duties then you will see BC move one of either Jose or TJ. What I liked about Jose's game this year is his driving to the bucket. He has improved on that imensely. That is what TJ was superior at. On the other side though Rondo was able to get around Jose alot yesterday. He wasn't able to do so against TJ, if you recall at the begining of the year. I think that Jose and TJ are about at par talent wise, the only caveat is TJ's health concerns. He may not turn out to be a long time player. Where Jose has shown that perhaps he is more durable. When TJ comes back it will be interesting to see him run the second unit for a while.
  37. Sek the Insane from Canada writes: Great, another point gaurd debate. Here is my contribution. 1st - I wish Roger S was the GM of the Orlando Magic. I'm pretty sure he'd take Calderon straight up for Dwight Howard. 2nd - Name the starting 'pass first' point guard of '90's Chicago Bulls? How 'bout Lakers at the beginning of this decade? Two dynasties - 0 top ten point guards. 3rd - How many combined championships do John Stockton, Steve Nash, and Jason Kidd have? Three of the top point guards of all time - 0 championships. Small sample size, and there have been championships where the best player on the winning team was a point guard (don't say Magic. Magic was 6'9". He was a freaking power forward playing the point guard position). I'm willing to bet the answer to the point guard debate is if the Raps don't improve their rebounding and get an upgrade at small forward then neither Calderon, Ford, or Forderon will help the Raps get to the promised land.

    As to the game it's nice to see what the Raps can do when they are firing on all cylinders. It was strange to see Calderon give up all those turnovers early in the game but he seems to press things when the defense is playing tight. He showed it against the Pistons too. Bosh seemed to get away from his game early as well. Both turned things around towards the end of the game. As for Bargnani, if this is the player he will eventually morph into then that will go a long ways to silencing all the 'Roy' and 'Aldridge' cries. Hopefully this game is a sign of things to come this season.
  38. Sasha Furlani from Toronto, Canada writes: Just to burst all your bubbles, TJ is a base year compensation player. This makes him virtually untradeable for a few years. BC keeps Jose forsure, and the Raps have the best PG tandem in the L for years to come. Why worry about who starts and whine back and forth about it. Is it really so bad to have both when neither has given any indication that the current set-up is an issue? Move on people...this is real old.

    Good win, but the problems we keep seeing (boards, points in paint, etc) will KILL us in the playoffs. Nobody shoots 70% from 3 in the playoffs, and to think you can get far with out D & boards is ridiculous. BC has to find away to address this before the deadline or I fear another 1 and done spring!
  39. Smooth Fan from Toronto, Canada writes: JMac, Mike James?????!!! Are you kidding me? That egotistical maniac thought he was Koby, wouldn't pass the ball and is playing garbage time again. I've always been a Jose supporter, but TJ is much better than Varejo and a bunch of other people you mentioned, TJ was on the Allstar ballot people, don't forget that, he is also a star guard in the league (#5 before thE injury). As for the win, great win that they grinded out BUT....56 POINTS IN THE PAINT!! How on earth is this team going to get past the first round of playoffs if their defense doesn't improve? How about the 10 OFFENSIVE boards by Boston in the 4th Q?? Our interior game SUCKS, period! Luckily for us Allen missed that jump shot at the buzzer (which he normally makes--no idea how he missed it) so we snuck away with the win. Anyone who saw last night's game knows we should have put this one away, but we kept Boston in it. Don't get me wrong, I was screaming in joy when we won, but think long term now. Do you really think playing like we did last night will get us far into the playoffs? No way man, teams will keep crashing the boards, driving for the easy bucket and make us work much harder hitting those 3's and jump shots. I think we need to pick up someone who can play D and make a trade before the playoffs for us to be serious contenders. Glad we won and earned some respect, let's keep the rhythem going! GO RAPS GO!
  40. Frank Foo from Canada writes: Jose is the PG man! His statistic turnover/assist ratio does not lie. He is consistent and under control. He is like Nash-pass first score second! TJ is the opposite and sometimes unpredictable. No doubt, he is good at breaking down player on a one on one. Having TJ & Jose is like the "Yin and "yan" Raptors needs Jose & TJ to maintain balance and harmony! Play them equally!
  41. Rich Chan from Vancouver, Canada writes: Guys, I don't want to talk about Jose and TJ right now. Yes, they're both good and I'm not going to say anything about what it is. What I liked about yesterday's game, stats aside is that the Raptors REALLY wanted to win this game badly, and it came out in Calderon making nice dishes out while driving to the basket. I really believe his basketball IQ is HIGH, and then in the final possession he spread out the floor because he knew Boston players had to go one-on-one with any of the three pointer players just in case Calderon dished out, and so Calderon just laid it in. This guy has fundamental boy.

    I wanted to comment on our rebounding and would like to talk about this from another side. Yes, our rebounding is terrible, but I really believe now after yesterday's game it's because of our make-up of the team and how we play it. The play makers in the NBA know that we are the number 1 3 point shooting team, and because 4 out of the 5 players we ever have on the court at any time can shoot behind the arc, we tend to be a perimeter based team. So, when the shots go off and 4 out of the 5 players are stuck behind the arc, there leaves no rebounders apart from Bosh to pick up the rebound. It's not that we're bad rebounders. It's just that our style of play doesn't allow us to be a rebounding team. Any thoughts on this. I just keep hearing comments that we're a bad rebounding team, but I'll take our number 1 3-point statline than rebounding balls and losing a game. Hey, all I can say is 3s are better than 2s, and yesterday we probably could've won by more if we didn't have as many careless turnovers because Colangelo has made our team a shooting beast.
  42. HC Bargs from Canada writes: Hi Rick, You're rebounding theory makes sense for why they don't get enough offensive boards. But they're horrible pulling down defensive boards as well. There's too much standing around while the team on offensive is working to get those boards.
  43. Big Cayman from South Toronto, Canada writes: Yertu, its a fact that the Raptor's are the best shooting team in the league, at least from 3. So Jose had a good game, big deal Roger S, its something we come to expect. You do realize that Rondo has just come back from injury right? So according to your logic that's why he' s MVP? So a team win over one elite team makes one of your players mvp? LOL! All you keep proving is how unintelligent your posts are. If the Raps only need one good PG their record doesn't show it. Unfortunately the Celtics beat the Raps in all other games. A bigger contributing factor to this win was Bargnani who we hope has turned the corner at least in his shooting, he was the X factor. There is no argument that the Raps must shoot the lights out if they are going to beat the elite teams. Unlike some idiots here I am a Raps fan first, so what matters to me is the win regardless of who is on the floor. But I agree with Allan and Joseph, the Raps deficiencies were on display proving that the current players on this squad are not enough to make to be consisdered an elite team. The rebounding was attrocious and there were too many turnovers... JMac! Where the hell have you been? Massimiliano, what did you think about the win?
  44. Big Cayman from South Toronto, Canada writes: Sek great points except that Bargs 20 and 7 outing, a great come back outing for him, is business as usual for Roy and Aldridge. The 7 assists however are excellent. Now if he could only learn how to play help and man defense.
  45. Big Cayman from South Toronto, Canada writes: Almost for got, did any see Al Jefferson of the lowly Timberwolves single handedly beat the Suns at both ends of the floor 39 and 15. He was getting double and triple teamed and was still on fire, a real gutsy performance when you consider Amare was his matchup for most of the game.
  46. Edwin Green from NS, Canada writes: the thing you all forget jose and TJ get along and share the job load just hope TJ can get back and be healthy would not like to see him crippeled for life and that is the main thing
  47. andy c from Canada writes: here's a outside of the box idea. send bosh, hump and maybe bargs to a football training camp for a few days. let them work out with the receivers as they have trouble hanging onto the ball when the get it in the paint.
  48. A non-Imus from Canada writes: Good points, Sek.

    Bargs is a waste of height. After last night, perhaps Bryan can trade him for can of tomato paste.
  49. Stevie Dee from Canada writes: Rich, I don't buy that argument in it's entirety and here's why. When you put up a lot of long range shots (i.e. 3's) it generally produces long rebounds which partially negates the fact that we don't have anybody under the glass. However, the fact that we only have Bosh under there can't be completely dismissed because those times that he does try a shot from the top of the key, we have nobody under there to crash the boards. This is partially a spacing (coaching?) issue, and partly a common sense issue for players on the floor. Why they don't hit the boards in those situations is beyond me. Similarly, the amount of shots the Raps put up when no one is in rebounding position is beyond me. This is fundamental basketball, and something that drives me nuts about the team (coaching again?). At the same time, rebounding is all attitude. There's no reason that Moon with his hops and athleticism couldn't be a Rodman type player on the boards. Problem is, he's never down there. The only two players that exhibit the rebounding "mentality" are Bosh and (of course) Humphries. However, now that much of Humphries minutes are going to Graham, Delfino (in the three guard set), or Rasho, we generally don't have any rebounders if Bosh puts up a shot from the top of the key. That's why I see Barg's development as so critical for this team. I've seen good signs on defense but the problem is that he is still largely a perimeter player on offense. Thing is guys, if the Raps introduce a Varejao type player (i.e. Humphries), what do we give up? Who gets replaced in the rotation and is it worth giving up the ability to score?
  50. Super Troll from Canada writes: Why is the headline 'salvage some pride'- what, is this the end of the season and the Raps are out of the playoffs and playing for pride? No hard done in losing 4 in the regular season to the best team in the league... wish the G&M would get some qualified hoops writers.
  51. Stevie Dee from Canada writes: If you don't think that the Raps were playing for pride after losing at home to the Celtics in overtime when KG torched them, then getting blown out twice by them, a team that was a joke and last in their division last year when they won it, and now is the odds on favorite to win the championship, then you guys have never played ball. True, it's a relatively meaningless game from a standings perspective, but it means a lot confidence wise.

    One look at the Raptors faces and celebration when the game ended tells you that.
  52. Super Troll from Canada writes: Stevie Dee- played lots of hoops. There's a difference between pride and confidence.
  53. Greg Ast from Nanoose Bay, Canada writes: Turnovers are caused by good defense and the Celtics defense is world class so what's the big deal? Great win against the best team in the World right now. Some concerns though:
    1. Andrea Bargnani is so down right now that he could barely enjoy the win with his teamates - so sad...
    2. Jose Calderone can't be expected to maintain this pace - the Raptors need TJ Ford to came back and pull at leat 33% of the point guard pressure in the 2nd half of this year.

    If Bargnani can come back to his known capabilities AND TJ can come back and share the workload AND CB can continue his stellar leadership then we are goint to be dancing in the streets come Springtime!!

    PS - Anthony Parker is playing the best ball of his career right now - taking up some of the slack when the Raptors need him badly.
  54. HC Bargs from Canada writes: Anyone know what the status is on Reggie Evans in Philly? It's his kind of hustle on the boards that the Raps really need...would love to see him coming off the bench in Toronto. And assuming TJ isn't coming back this year, I think Damon would be a pretty decent back up...

    Who knows what BC is thinking. I love this time of year!
  55. Yertu Damkule from Canada writes: greg - no doubt, the celts are more than likely the best defensive team in the east...well, at least they have the best low-post defender. take garnett out of the equation, and they're still good, but clearly, he's the straw that stirs their defensive juice. that being said - of their 18 TO's, 8 or so were just simple bad decisions/passes by the raps...throwing passes to open space, i think there were two or three back-court violations in which the raps simply tossed passes to no one, and just general sloppiness with the ball. of course, some of that is the pressure from boston, but it wasn't as though they (celts) were making great defensive stops. i know rondo gets a lot of cred as being a good defender, and jose gets his share of criticism...but i thought jose was able to handle rondo's D quite well, and i don't recall more than a few times in which rondo beat jose.

    anyway...how many more poor games does moon have to have before he gets some of the criticism that we've all been more than willing to level at bargs?
  56. George Hall from Canada writes: Toronto should play a more intense defensvie game they are too porous....you would think defensive intensity could be taught and if Bargnani had it he would be one great player..
    The Celtics had 23 fast break points and the Raptors had 0....
    The Raptors are too soft without a fast break threat
  57. Big Cayman from South Toronto, Canada writes: Yertu, Moon has been out peroforming expectations and was undrafted and is competing for ROY (though he has not much of a chance to win) and Bargs has been underperforming expectations and was,... well you know, not that this is necessarily an excuse, also Bargs had a yearlong honeymoon which some act as if its not over. Jamario at least has the rookie learning curve to save him somewhat. Moon also defends well and hustles. But hey, nothing is sacred here really so criticize away, I'd actually be interested to know what you think he's been doing badly lately.
  58. Yertu Damkule from Canada writes: BigC - hey, i know he's come out of nowhere, and maybe i see the athleticism & just expect more out of him. i realize he's raw, and he's provided them with something they were lacking, so don't get me wrong, i'm not looking to criticize him. and for sure, he's a rookie, but he's also 27 and been around the block enough that he should realize that the factors that will allow him to find success in this league are continued hustle, D & driving the lane.

    lately, he's not just been settling for the mid-range jumper, he's been looking for it. it'd be one thing if he was a good jump shooter, but he's not. anyway, i just find it funny how we're more than ready to leap on bargs for his poor outings for not doing the little things (defending, rebounding, driving, etc.), yet, moon plays probably his worst game yesterday (i'll concede that he played decent - though not shut-down - defense), and i don't hear a peep. bargs has his best game in months, yet we're still complaining about his rebounding & D, which, in this game, was actually pretty good.
  59. Wasabi Jones from Canada writes: Sek the Insane from Canada, I think Isiah Thomas and Bob Cousy might disagree with some of your arguments.
  60. Shadreck Nyathi from Canada writes: Well done the Raps ,you can play better than that! You are a great team of the marple juice. Up the standings we go . We now need to beat Detroit as well.
  61. Sek the Insane from Canada writes: Wasabi Jones from Canada writes: I think Isiah Thomas and Bob Cousy might disagree with some of your arguments.

    Yes, because Bill Laimbeer, Dennis Rodman, and Joe Dumars had nothing to do with Detroit's two championships and Bob Cousy won eight championships in a row in spite of hall of famers Tom Heinsohn, K.C. Jones, and Bill Russell.

    I think I mentioned that there have been some pretty good teams in the past where the point guard was one of the best players. The San Antonio Spurs and Detroit Pistons come to mind. My point was more Ford or Calderon could turn out to be the next coming of Nash and Stockton respectively and it wouldn't mean much if the Raps don't improve their rebounding and improve at small forward. On the other hand, I'd trade both Ford and Calderon for a small forward or a center who can dominate off the dribble. There aren't many GM's out there who wouldn't.

    Big C, I agree about Aldridge and Roy. They are both having spectacular seasons. I'm not ready to give up hope for Bargnani yet. My point still stands, if Bargnani can eventually consistently play like he did in the first half of this game then there won't be much talk about Aldridge and Roy from Raptor fans. But your right he has a long ways to go.
  62. Big Cayman from South Toronto, Canada writes: Yeah, I'm not keen on Moon settling for his mediocre J when he could be busting up the rim...Sek, I always find the better discussions here happen in the later posts, regardless of the various points of view.
  63. Rich Chan from Vancouver, Canada writes: Sek, are you serious man? You'd trade both Ford and Calderon for a small forward who can create off the dribble. So you'd trade Ford and Calderon for someone like Dixon. No way, not me. I know there are arguments about this and you've had a point in your original post about how many point guards combined for how many championships with Nash, Stockton and Kidd, but seriously. You forgot about Bob Cousy, Walt Frazier, Oscar Robertson and a bit more recently, Isiah Thomas and Chauncey Billups, all winning championships in their respective times, based on good point guards being used. It's really about the team in the end except if you're the Chicago Bulls with Jordan (which was an unbelievable exception). No way man, after Jose, you can clearly see the effects of a bad point guard with Mike James taking too many shots and not helping out the rest of the team, so no, Jose to me is an all star and to a lesser extent so is Ford, but I would not trade away either of these guys.
  64. Sek the Insane from Canada writes: Rich Chan - I love it when someone misquotes me when they try to argue with me. First I didn't say create I said dominate. In other words give me a Lebron James, Kobe Bryant, Dwayne Wade, or even a Kevin Durant, or Brandon Roy and you can have both TJ Ford and Jose Calderon. Never did I say Juan Dixon or Mike James.

    Second the best teams out there have multiple scoring options, no question and often have a pretty good point guard. I never said there was never a championship won without a hall-of-famer at point. But without Bill Russell I'm not sure the Celtics win one championship, much less eight in a row. Subtract either Bill Laimbeer and Dennis Rodman from the Pistons in the early 90's and I'm pretty sure that Detroit has no championships from those years. Subtract Cousy and Thomas and maybe the answer is the same who knows. I do know that one of the greatest dynastys of all time ('90's Chicago Bulls) didn't have a hall of famer at point and instead used a three-point specialist. Neither did the Lakers earlier this decade or more recently the Miami Heat. Championships can be won without a true point guard.

    Who knows, maybe the Phoenix Suns win this year and changes all our minds. I ain't holdin' my breath.
  65. Rich Chan from Vancouver, Canada writes: That's okay Sek. I get what you're saying now. Good point. I think in the end that dynamic is the entire team and not the sum of it's parts. The dynasty involving the Bulls did have a great 2 and 3 with Jordan and Pippen and there's no way Jordan could have done it alone without Pippen, because they were almost averaging the same scoring during those championship years. In any case, that's about it. At this stage though I wouldn't change Calderon or Ford, and that's only because they are our aces in our team.
  66. Sek the Insane from Canada writes: I agree that Calderon and Ford are important parts of the Raptors. My angst is less against how the Raptors are built and more towards the Ford v. Calderon debate that seems to pop up every time the Raps get a win. With either Ford, Calderon, or Forderon the Raps are set at the point guard position. The Raps need to improve in other areas to take the next step.

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