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NCAA approves program to allow Canadian schools in D-II

Associated Press

Latest comment posted at 9:15 AM EST 16/01/08

Doors open for six Canadian institutions to begin competing south of the border ...Read the full article

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  1. Billy Biroux from Polar Bear Pit, Nunavet, Canada writes: This idea will never fly.
    Down there its geared towards fielding the best teams with the best players available.
    Up here you need a high average to get in, regardless how good you are.
    And second, they offer shcolarships to disadvantaged kids. Up here we don't do that either.
    Its an uneven playing field.
  2. Christopher L from Niagara Falls, Canada writes: Great news... but until Canada allows some form of athletic scholarships, the US shouldn't expect too much competition.

    As opposed to a brain-drain, we still have quite a bit of a jock-drain. (wait... that doesn't sound right...)
  3. P Scott from Canada writes: "Some Canadian schools want to be able to award full athletic scholarships, which aren't allowed at Canadian universities."

    Pardon?! Another great way to lose our athletes and their chosen professions upon graduating.

    But of course, it's not like tuitions are getting out of hand up here...!
  4. A A from Canada writes: Big difference between US and Canadian schools is the US schools use their teams as huge revenue generators to help with their programs (sports primarily). They spend big $ and make big $!

    There are 2 completely different systems and it does not make sense at all.
  5. Spencer C from Canada writes: A A: That is a complete myth.

    A recent study found that only a handful of NCAA Div 1 team actually generated a profit for their school.

    Why does BC want to be American so badly?
  6. Roberto P from Canada writes: Interesting that it was a landslide vote for Canadian Universities joining. I guess it's in their best interest to expand NCAA viewership north of the border.

    As long as Canadian universities stay away from NCAA Football, Basketball, Tennis, Golf and Baseball the embarrassment level might remain tolerable. Maybe we'll attract some 4th rate US reject athletes that use us as a springboard to get into Division II, US universities. We can only dream.
  7. Jenn D from Gatineau, Canada writes: Great, now our universities will move south like our hockey teams and the Expos did.
  8. Chris Michaels from Oakville, Canada writes: Personally, I'd rather have our schools improve their academic merit. Leave the CHL to handle developing our athletes.

    Paying a full ride (say $12k) to a football player just doesn't make sense to me. Most teams wouldn't barely crack that amount in gate receipts. And, regardless of the players on the field, I just don't see more than 10,000 taking in a CIS game -- and that's no slight to the athletes. (Hey -- remember when the CIS allstars went in and beat the NCAA allstars at Joe Louis Arena? Funny how we haven't seen a repeat of that event...)

    Just a difference in culture.
  9. J C from Canada writes: Top Canadian university teams can compete very well with most US schools in most sports. Take volleyball for example: our top teams can compete equally with their top Div 1 teams. Let's open up the competition and see what happens.

    This scenario will benefit Canadian universities by giving it more exposure to the US population. Great marketing to bring more US students into the fold to pay foreign student fees.
  10. Jimmy Junk from Regina, Canada writes: It's about time Canadian schools start offering full scholarships for athletes. When I went to university the calibre of our athletes was poor, except for the volleyball team.
    Can anyone tell me why our Canadian universities shouldn't be able to field top notch hockey teams? When I looked at the hockey roster most of the players were WHL players who had finished their junior career. If universities spent some money they could get top talent players as soon as they came out of high school. This would allow them to get a good education while at the same time playing "A" calibre hockey. I don't think this is such a far-fetched idea.
    Good on the universities that decide to grab hold of this opportunity.
  11. paul Alex from Canada writes: While the opportunity to compete against american athletes may be attractive to some, I see two institutions at stake here, firstly is canadian football and, secondly major junior hockey.

    In order to compete in the NCAA our schools will have to play their game and our best athletes will gravitate to schools in the NCAA.

    As for hockey, once our schools crush their division II schools they will promote our kids to Div I. As soon as that happens, many of the talented athletes will forego junior, play university hockey and get an education at the same time.
  12. Billy Biroux from Polar Bear Pit, Nunavet, Canada writes: Alex Paul.
    Our CHL players already get an education when they play hockey.
    And if they don't make the NHL, they get their tuition paid by the CHL if they want to go to university or college.
    So I don't know what you're talking aobu there.

    And Roberto.
    If we were able to get our best to play university sports, not just those who can afford to attend universtiy, plus have the marks, then it would be a different story. Because right not our universites aren't about producing top notch sports teams. Its about education.
  13. John Grech from Canada writes: I think the schools up here are doing the right thing in trying to join the NCAA. My son is working on a atheltic scholarship at the moment - he is only looking at US schools because the programs are superior. Should all things go well, he will get a full scholarship, compared to $500-$3500 offered here. I wish the Canadian colleges that dare to be different all the best.
  14. Chris Michaels from Oakville, Canada writes: John Grech -- just wondering...why should the rest of the population -- who, I hope, still view Canadian schools as place of academia -- fund exceptional athletes?

    Again, I love watching CIS stuff...when I went to Western, I was constantly impressed and entertained by the Mustangs hockey team (all of whom were OHL grads). And the quality of the game was far better than the Michigan and Michigan State games that we'd seen....although, the 'Stangs were hard pressed to pull more than 500 to a game. The MSU vs UM game I was at had 16,000.

    That said, people from around the world would come, and pay big money, to be in the Engineering and Medical schools...same with Ivey Biz school.

    Personally, I'd rather my degree represented a respected institution of learning, research and discovery rather than 'a pretty good hockey program'.

    If I feel the need to be associated with that, I'll buy a Knights hat.
  15. Stephen Harper from Canada writes: Athletic scholarships is just a way of allowing poor students to get a free ride at school.

    Unless you're going professional, all a scholarship to a big U.S. school will get you is a second rate education.
  16. David Gehring from Ottawa, Canada writes: One of the mandates of (most) universities is to train its students for a professional career. While I realize that athletics is a profession like any other, I hope Canadian universities don't head down a slippery slope of focusing more and more of their resources on competitive NCAA athletics programs. The NCAA is already plagued with "jock schools" that repeatedly win championships in different sports but produce very poorly on the academic front. How many of these athletes actually parlay that big scholarship into a viable professional career? Very few. Are the Canadian universities with low academic rankings preparing to move in the same direction? Are we going to adopt a system where some schools are "Ivy League" and others are "jock schools" or even worse... "party schools"?
  17. L. C. from Canada writes: I will look at the bright side of this opportunity. More exposure in different level of competition will only lead to better development. University and college students are going to see more career opportunity in Pro Sports.

    Maybe we will see more kids wearing jeaseys from Canadian universities than colleges.
  18. johnny meahan from halifax, Canada writes: this could be the worse news for CIS schools ever reported. One can just imagine the slippery slope this will produce. Some of the posters don't realize that the schools will have to give full scholarships, which in order to compete will eventually go to all US athletes (Blake NIll coach of U of Calgary has already said this), and as more schools are forced to go to NCAA to recruit then you can kiss 3 down football goodbye. The NCAA always seems to be a instiution with one scandle after another. Even if Canadian schools do go this route, we will still loose our athletes to the bigger div 1 programs.
  19. It Is Me from Canada writes: Full athletic scholarships make no sense to me.
    We talking about Universities here...... an intellectual environment where people go to learn and study the great issues that matter to humanity. Let's not transform universities into sports clubs. Partial athletic scholarships are fine, but not full ones. Full scholarships should only be given based on academic criteria.
  20. Jack Nider from It's soooo coldddd....., Canada writes: Full ride scholarships are allowed in the US because of the revenue generated by the athletic programs, specifically Football.
    This is not the case in Canada where average attendances and television revenue equate to nothing more than friends and family and charity.
  21. David Roy from Montreal, Canada writes: How about swimming ? Track & Field ? Badminton ?
    All these sports are also full scholarship programs in NCAA
    Not very much pro money in these sports - guess that the athletes are doing it for the love their sport - like a good number of Canada's Olympic team who are getting training in USA that's not available here.

    And for those who don't get a pro contract after graduating from a big name schools - there's no shame in getting a B.A. from the University of Michigan.

    Once again Canadians focus on the worst of the USA.
    Let's compare ourselves to the best.
  22. J M from Superduperhockeyville, Canada writes: Our CHL players already get an education when they play hockey.

    Yup .... this brick goes here, this brick goes here, go an get some more bricks from the pile, this brick goes here, this brick goes here ....

    And if they don't make the NHL, they get their tuition paid by the CHL if they want to go to university or college

    Yeah, but they have to finish grade 9 first.
  23. Dick Nails from Canada writes: Spencer C from Canada writes: A A: That is a complete myth.

    A recent study found that only a handful of NCAA Div 1 team actually generated a profit for their school.

    Why does BC want to be American so badly?

    >> Why does the rest of Canada (maybe it is just you) want to be 2nd rate?

    Competing against the best brings out the best. The best in this case happen to be American.

    Thanks for playing Spencer. You can pick up your 'Participation' Award at the door.
  24. paul Alex from Canada writes: Hey Billy Biroux

    Surely the education the boys get riding on buses in the CHL pales in comparisson to what the boys get playing for the higher ranked US colleges. On another note, for those who don't make the bigs, I'll bet my money that the connections made at Yale, Brown or Harvard outweigh the ones made while playing for any CHL team.

    That's what I am talking about.
  25. A Leading Edge Boomer from Canada writes: Simon Fraser used to play in a small College US league and gave full scholarships to some. So it is not new for them.

    It may be that UBC and SFU are closer to the schools they would play in Washington and Oregon than they are to the schools they now play in Sask, Alberta and Manitoba.

    Laval U has been rumored to want to play football in the US. They currently are run by a non-profit corporation of Quebec city business people .The team, pulls in good crowds and makes money that is invested in the universities other sports. may want to see if they can expand that revenue by playing in the US, getting greater TV exposure and more sponsorships.

    Likely to be little interest from Ontario universities to play in a US league, at the present time.
  26. Ian Newbould from Rocky Mount, United States writes: I have just returned from the NCAA meetings in Nashville. As a Canadian President of a US university, I am somewhat bemused by the vidions of grandeur of those who regard the NCAA as a nirvana. Division II is a great level for athletes. The level of competition is very good. But it is not the big time, and Canadian universities would not be able to award full scholarships except on a limited basis. Division II provides partial scholarships, not full scholarships. The schools do not spend big $ to make big$. The Division II philosophy is to provide partial scholarships to boost enrollment by attracting student-athletes who do not go to the big time Division I schools, or to Division III schools which are not allowed to provide athletic scholarships. Revenue in Division II comes from student fees, not from TV or gate receipts. The NCAA has three divisions, each distinctly different. Division II is not the big time, either by design or outcome.
  27. Reginald Bibby from Lethbridge, writes: Hi Ian!

    Back in the 90s, wanted our U of L Pronghorn national champs -- coached at the time by Mike Babcock -- to challenge the NCAA hockey champs for a North American title.

    The point of the illustration is that it is terrific when Canadians teams take on the Americans. But they don't need to be in the same leagues, just take on the Americans while remaining "proudly Canadian." Why not more CIS-NCAA pre-season, interlocking, and post-season championship games?

    Let's not join 'em -- just beat 'em!
  28. so, Living on the Right doesn't mean you're right from USA, Canada writes: Ian is correct. Many of the posts here see this as a talent drain, schools heading off to greener pastures, etc. Division II athletics is good but it's not nearly as visible as D-I. There are few opportunities for television coverage, sponsorship and full ride scholarships. And since the western and eastern canadian schools do offer some sort of scholarship now, they are very similar in make up to a D-II school here. The benefits to schools in BC is travel. As much as it would be better to take on Alberta, Manitoba and such in sports, it is not cheap to get there or for those other teams to visit. Washington state has many different schools within a short bus trip. Sure there may be cases where the school wants to increase it's competition field but that won't happen. US schools already heavily recruit from Canada and many Canadian student athletes send tapes and hopes down to the US schools hoping for a full-ride. Outside of hockey that rarely happens. But it will increase just because those Canadian kids see Michigan/Michigan State on HD national tv or LSU and OSU play in front of tens of thousands and have a dream of being a pro. Olympic sports offer opportunities for better training with better funded schools. For all of the posters who support your university, bravo. But there are thousands in Canada who won't miss a Saturday afternoon tuned to ABC or CBS for a US college football game when entertaining Canadian football is a block away. Ever see Guelph/UWO on a sportsline ticket? Ever enter an office pool for the CIS basketball tournament? IF you as a fan can't pass that up, how can you expect a high school student with dreams of playing in front of you at that school not want to try for it? This really wont' change much for the Canadian schools except cut down on travel costs and give them a different kind of athletic challenge.
  29. Billy Biroux from Polar Bear Pit, Nunavet, Canada writes: Yeah JM and Alex Paul.
    And I hear the streets are paved with gold down there too.
    They've got nothing on us.
    You gotta quit sucking up the hype.
  30. Matthew Townsend from Brooklyn, United States writes: People, you need to educate yourself.

    "Full ride scholarships are allowed in the US because of the revenue generated by the athletic programs, specifically Football."

    This is a myth. A big MYTH. Only a handful of BCS schools make money with their athletic programs. The other 90-95% of the programs at the NCAA DI and DII level heavily subsidize their athletic programs.

    @ Ian Newbould...well said.
  31. M Spiker from Ottawa, Canada writes: Ian Newbould...please stop introducing facts into a GandM thread you will potentially educate the commenter's.

    A simple search for the list of schools in Division 2 might convince the typical GandM US-hater that it is a totally different world from Division 1. I am surprised that these schools would let the Canadian schools in -- our schools are much larger than the typical D2 school.

    This is a good move and the new competition should improve the poor level of athletics at Canadian schools (at least the ones who participate).
  32. Billy Biroux from Polar Bear Pit, Nunavet, Canada writes: M Spiker.
    I would't call the level of our untiversity atheltics poor.
    Its just that unlike down there, our best 18 and 19 year old athletes do not compete in university sports.

    I read where in ONtario they're giving limited athletic scholarships.
    But to get in, you need an 80% average! Thats a pretty steep standard if you as me.

    While universities up here aren't for producing pro atheltes, you have to guess that alot of potential talent has been wasted because they could not get into univesrity.

    Full scholarships would keep our kids in Canada. Improve our universtiy sports. And would produce alot of great athletes for pro sports and the Olympics.

    Maybe form a conference of all the big schools where full scholarships can be offered. And the rest of the smaller schools will continue as is.
  33. M Spiker from Ottawa, Canada writes: I feel the state of our university athletics programs is "poor" for a number of reasons: our best collegiate athletes are in the US under full or partial scholarships (this includes hockey); inferior facilities, lack of interest from the administrations, and lack of coaching (largely a result of the previous reasons).

    This state is to be expected given that with the exception of hockey the entire elite athlete supply chain is broken in this country. We don't have the strong high school athletic programs of the US or the club system used in Europe.

    Why can't we accept that student-athletes are a good thing? Thousands of D1 and D2 athletes graduate each year a significant number because of their school's scholarship/athletics program.
  34. Anne Mathews from Canada writes: Student-athletes are a wonderful thing, and that's what we have in Canada. In the US, they have athletes-students and the difference is huge. I've coached a number of kids that have gone down and returned two years alter because they were tired of being told what classes to take or to drop classes that interfered with their practice schedule. You see, they are being paid to play, not to attend school.

    I have gone to SFU and UBC games. Outside of SFU basketball, you could shoot a cannon through the stands. Even when there's a visiting US school, the attendance can be spotty.

    We don't need this. The reason we don't offer scholarships is that no sport in CIS actually generates funds. In the US, football generates enough, as te marquee sport, to help balance things.

    I'm embarrassed by this decision. It's an afront to the CIS and to the programs that we amateur coaches have been supporting.

    This is not the way to go.
  35. dippsy doodle from Crescent Beach, Canada writes: Let's remember that the CIS banned SFU from competing against other Canadian colleges for over 30 years, because they dared to offer "over the table" $500 scholarships. They joined the U.S. NAIA circuit out of necessity. So Canadian colleges playing in American coferences is nothing new.

    It is typical Canadian-thinking to believe that because nobody supports our student-athletes that we can't compete with American schools, which often draw thousands of fans to their games. Better just to give up and have most of our finest young athletes dream of going to U.S. schools instead. They are just not a priority for our smug Canadians. Aren't we SO superior to those money-grubbing yankees!

    I also wouldn't feel too smug about how "low rung" the Div. II is. The ruling allows Div. II schools to play against Div.1 schools in one sport. Canadian colleges can also apply for full Div. 1 membership in 2011.

    I'm sure once UBC and SFU join the NCAA, that U of T won't be far behind, especially with Toronto's apparant love affair with anything American. The prospect of the football Blues playing against the likes of Florida, Ohio State and UCLA might even spur them to rebuild the grandstand of their condemned Varsity stadium, (did anyone even notice?)
  36. Chris Michaels from Oakville, Canada writes: Dippsy Doodle!!! Surely you're out of your mind!!
    Can you imagine the 0-48 (or whatever) U of T Blues up against even stiffer competition???

    Instead of the 65-0 drubbings they take here, they'll be 85-0!
    But who knows,,,,that probably would increase the crowd size in wannabe-town.

    Even still....unless Ontario teams were playing Mich or Ohio, I still don't see more than 15,000 showing up.

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