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Sundin prefers Toronto

DAVID SHOALTS

From Wednesday's Globe and Mail

Latest comment posted at 7:38 PM EST 09/01/08

Captain doesn't like idea of being a two-month rental player ...Read the full article

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  1. C. S. from Canadia, Canada writes: Its no wonder he is a fan favorite and well respected in the league. They don't make athletes like this anymore.
  2. tom h from Canada writes: Classy guy, and a great player. Too bad he's stuck with such a bunch of losers.
  3. dan vanman from vancouver, Canada writes: Total class...of course. Mr Sundin has always had that. He will be hurting his beloved Laffs if he doesn't listen to trade offers though. The cupboard is too bare in Laffland without trading him to get talent back.

    Sorry Mats, you may have to put up with being a "rental" player this year.

    You can always come back next year...until then, you may want to consider joining your fellow Swedes on the Canucks? (Please??)
  4. Jim Hendricks from Toronto, Canada writes: It's too bad his loyalty to the team and pride of wearing the Leafs sweater isn't reciprocated by management doing its utmost to build a contender. It would be a sad irony that we need to loose him to move forward. But I think that would be the easy way for current management to save their necks. Let's never forget he's a classy guy who embodies what's needed most in the league. And we've wasted him unless someone in management is emboldened by the same loyalty to the fans and the Leafs sweater that Mats has shown.
  5. Howard Citrin from Canada writes: Personally, I'd like Sundin to stay but I'd like to see the 'C' moved to someone who is driven to win the cup. Sundin just wants to play and couldn't care about winning.
  6. MJ M from Fort McMurray, Canada writes: Classy guy destined not to win a Stanley Cup...too bad.
  7. John Smith from Canada writes: Yeah right Howard. Slap a C on another player and just watch the Leafs win the cup. Darryl Sittler, Rick Vaive, none of them was driven to win the cup (as evidenced by the fact that the Leafs did not win the cup). Weak evidence for your point to be sure
  8. Howard Citrin from Canada writes: John: Putting the C on a driven guy is of course no guarantee of a cup win. But putting it on a guy who doesn't care is a guarantee of not even being in the competiton.

    Open your eyes to what it means to be competitive.
  9. Clark The Mighty from Canada writes: Put Gilmour behind the bench as assistant coach and slap the C on him!
  10. James C. from Chaozhou, Guangdong, China writes: "dan vanman from vancouver, Canada writes: Sorry Mats, you may have to put up with being a "rental" player this year."

    ----------

    on the upside, it will be his only chance at a well deserved stanley cup. think of ray bourque, and a few others.
  11. James C. from Chaozhou, Guangdong, China writes: if anyone but mats was wearing the C in toronto, i'd say it stood for clown.
  12. Alberto Bayo from Canada writes: What? You mean he'd forgo a Cup run as a rent-a-player to remain a Leaf? Madness. Ablsolute madness. Maybe the 'Cup' isn't as much a beacon, as it is for North American players.
  13. Sid Ali from Canada writes: Interesting to compare him to Ray Bourque who remained a Bruin until near his dying days when he asked to be traded to a contender. I must admit I respect Sudin's integrity more... but question his sanity. I don't have that much moral fibre. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_Bourque
  14. dan vanman from vancouver, Canada writes: Don't know what Howard has been smoking, but it must be very good. Howard, most nights Sundin is the only player "driven" to win on the sad sack Laffs. He deserves better.

    And he definitely deserves better than someone who probably never laced them up like yourself questioning his heart.

    He would reply to you with that famous line from Jerry Macguire..."No heart? No heart? I'm ALL heart moth&#f@ker!"
  15. Howard Citrin from Canada writes: I'm not questioning Sundin's heart. I am doubting his desire. There is a difference. Unfortunately, you don't seem to understand it. I guess its because it wasn't discussed in Jerry Macguire. Somtimes, you learn things by playing a team sport, rather than watching movies about them.

    Doing what it takes to win a game is very different than doing what it takes to win a cup. Mats has made it clear that doing what it takes to win a cup isn't where he is at, at this time in his career. That is his decision to make.

    It would benefit the Leafs to have a captain who is at the point in his career where he is willing to do what it takes to win a cup.
  16. Ryan Bergeron from Cornwall, Canada writes: I don't think it be wise to Trade Mat Sundin because like he said he doesn't want to be traded and he would do everything for the team and he has, He made not win stanley cups yet but you gotta look also what team he has he never once in his career had a star player beside him like other teams had look at Mighty ducks and new york rangers and detriot red wings for example those are all star stat team has high hopes for winning stanley cups mat sundin never had those kinda teams in his career with Toronto Maple Leafs it's not him should be the Trade it's other players that should be gone if i was a General Manger i wipe out the whole house clean and make some new hardcore talent team and coaches Two people i highly consider to keep out of the whole Toronto Maple leaf would be Mat Sundin and Vesa Toskla, Vesa man you gotta give him a credit he plays awesome if he had the right defense with him no one can by pass him thats for damn sure.
  17. Bert Russell Paradox, BC from Canada writes:
    I'm certain the powers to be have a game plan ... even if it involves being well down at the end of the season to garner some decent draft picks. But management in Toronto and ownership has neglected and taken advantage of loyal fans to the extreme. I personally would like to see Peddie and Tanenabaum removed from having anything to say on the hockey operation - they have the money to pay for the best hockey management and if they go into next season with the same performance - fans should get together and boycott the Leafs for whatever it takes to shake the organization right to the top.
  18. dan vanman from vancouver, Canada writes: Whatever Howard.

    Your previous post casts doubt directly on Mr. Sundin's heart. As for Jerry Macguire, its called humour buddy. Don't be too serious.

    As for the difference between heart and desire, you are just playing with semantics. You can't have one without the other.

    Played sports all my life Howard, but I doubt you can say the same. You would rather build yourself up by knocking down a great player like Sundin, who has toiled fo years on a team that wasn't talented enough to win the Cup.

    Doesn't want to win Howard? How the h#ll would you know? Sundin WANTS to win badly. You can see it in his eyes, his demeanour as he patiently explains to the media how they blew another one.

    Don't post about things you know nothing about Howard. Or maybe start out on another sports' thread before hockey.

    Because you obviously never played the game, and obviously don't have a clue.

    That being said...have a nice day.

    BTW...I am a life long Canucks fan, not the Laffs, but Mats Sundin trancends those team boundaries. Imagine if I was a card carrying member of Laffs Nation!!! LOL
  19. Patrick Matheson from Canada writes: trade the bum...

    really...

    I mean it and go ahead.. yell and call me names... blahblahblah...

    never should have been appointed captain
  20. Alex Dunnigan from Canada writes: The fact that Sundin doesn't want to be traded to a contender doesn't mean that he doesn't want to win the cup. I'm sure he'd much rather win it as a Leafs (.. poor guy). I think if you asked Bourque whether winning the cup as a rental player was as satisfying than as a Bruin, he'd probably admit no ....
  21. Henry Allen from East Bank, Don River, Canada writes: Even if Mats goes to another team in exchange for another player or two, what does that do for this year? Very, very little. Put new paint and a spoiler on a 1971 Lada and you still have a 1971 Lada. Still, for the sake of the Leafs, Mats needs to be permanently traded and not later returned. MLSE needs to find a new, top, experienced GM who develops a patient, intelligent rebuilding plan that includes dismantling the long-term contracts that are crippling the team's restructuring. Meanwhile, in gratitude for all he has selflessly done, send Mats to a team with a chance to win Stanley.
  22. Bill M from Canada writes: Of course Mats doesn't want to be traded. Where else could a player average a point a game through his career, never win a single thing (except MVP in World Championship tourney), get paid much more than he deserves, and be looked upon as the greatest player to have ever donned a uniform. If he wanted to win a Cup, he would have left years ago, but no other team was going to pay $7.5 million a year for his production.
  23. George Robson from Calgary, Canada writes: Pure class , the Toronto Maple Leafs clearly are Canada's team.
  24. Peter Hells from Oakville, Canada writes:

    Mats knows full well he will be traded...he just wants the fans to think he is sooo loyal when deep inside he's like..."Get me outta here!!"
  25. N. Reader from Toronto, Canada writes: he's a class act but dumb as a post if he thinks this team is going anywhere - seriously do the math, no doubt MLSE has already and their chance of cracking 90 points for the season is less than 5% based on my calcs...if Sundin is truly "loyal" accept the 2-3 month rental gig, let the Leafs stock up on some quality players a few high placed draft picks and then come back for another year at a 'hometown discount' if he likes it so much here
  26. John Smith from Canada writes: dan vanman from vancouver,I think you could of made your point to Howard without getting personal about his sporting background (or possible lack thereof).

    You are quite right one can see the fire in Sundin's eyes almost every night this year. Howard is funtioning on the media myth that has questioned Sundin at times and followed him from Quebec (all those years ago). Sundin also suffers from the "big man" syndrome - 6 foot 5, 230 pound men appear to be moving slowly. Mario Lemieux used to be accused of the same. Gordie Howe was at times believe it or not! Big men can not "squirt" around the ice like the little guys nor do they have to because of their size -- and some then conclude they are not trying.

    The fact that Sundin is sitting just out of top ten in points with little support from team mates tells you he is serious about winning. Cups are won game by game by game and that is how Sundin is playing and always has played.
  27. John Ridout from Canada writes: Mr. Sundin is a class act and a great role model for our youth. We are so fortunate that he has played his career here in Toronto.
  28. John Smith from Canada writes: I don't think Patrick Matheson from Canada anyone has to call you names for your comments --- "blahblahblah" says it all.

    I am not sure what world Bill M lives in where winning an MVP in a world tournament is not an accomplishment. (You forgot his being named to Olympic All Star Team in 2002 but then that in your world is not an accomplishment). Only a point a game over a long career -- not an accomplishment according to Bill.

    Tell us Bill, is winning a Stanley Cup the only sign of accomplishment for an NHL player? Well, you just emptied the Hockey Hall of Fame because there are many there who never won an MVP, did not have a point a game average and did not win a Stanley Cup.
  29. Mia Culpa from Canada writes: He may be 36 and near the end of his hockey career, but he's still the best player on the team by a wide margin.

    For those who think he should be traded: the Leafs don't exactly have a track record of making astute hockey deals...
  30. John Smith from Canada writes: Mia Culpa, Leafs did make one astute trade - sending Wendel Clark to Quebec in exchange for Mats Sundin. Cliff Fletcher was fried for making that trade (lucky for Cliff the G&M was not on-line with open postings). Poor Wendel. He could not even manage a point a game average over his career, never won the Stanley Cup or play in the Cup finals or be named to a postseason All-Star Team. Poor Wendel, he never accomplished anything in his career (at least not by high standards of excellence set out by Bill M).
  31. John Doucette from Canada writes: "Sundin prefers Toronto" I always thought his taste was questionable.
  32. Howard Young from Canada writes: I have a different perspective. I think Mats is being selfish. There's a good chance that his trade would improve Toronto's fortunes in the long run and give the franchise what it needs to contend. I'm sure he knows that, but he would rather stay where he is comfortable and be the martyr.
  33. Howard Citrin from Canada writes: Dan: You seem oddly desperate to convince a complete stranger of your sporting abilities. However, your inferiority issues are your own.

    John: The question being asked to Sundin is: if you had to choose between going to another team that has the opportunity to win a cup or staying with Toronto, where that opportunity does not exist, what would you prefer. His answer, to stay with Toronto, reflects his priorities at this time in his career. The cup is not what drives him today.

    I have watched Sundin for years. I know he is one of the best players in the NHL. His skill is not what is being discussed here. Doea anyone read the aritcles anymore?
  34. Super Troll from Canada writes: OMG you Leaf fans are too much! Gushing over Sundown... sure he's been good but if he doesn't accept a trade this team is destined to repeat this season again next year. Then you'll all be here whining & complaining because the Leafs are so bad again.

    You guys are unreal.
  35. Darmok and Jilad from Tanagra, Canada writes: SuperTroll: I agree with you.

    Mats used to be the ONLY Leaf I had respect for - now I see it is clear he has no ambition for the top prize he should be playing his heart out for. He honestly, and foolishly, believes that the Laffs will make the playoffs and compete.

    He should be stripped of the 'C'.
  36. Super Troll from Canada writes: Darmok- even if they do somehow manage to grab the 8th seed they'll be blown out in the first round. What's the point?! If JFJ had any ballz (or power) he should try and deal Sundown.

    If Sundown doesn't want to leave 'because he likes it here' to the detriment of the team, then Leaf fans should be denigrating him- not heaping praise... unreal!!!

    Leaf fans are clueless
  37. Paul I from Rochester NY, United States writes: Too bad these comments never amount to anything more than everyone trying to be more clever than the previous post. It is also too bad that most sports fans are so jaded that they don't recognize a true leader when he is right in front of their eyes.Mats embodies what was the best of the Maple Leafs during the glory days. I know it was 41 years ago. I was there. I will never forget my first game at the Gardens. it was 1963 against Detroit and I could barely see over the wall in the standing room only area. But it didn't matter-I was in the Gardens! Mr.Sundin carries that tradition on no matter what the cynics and smart guys think. I'm sure there is a 10 year old kid that feels the same way I did when I first saw Dave Keon and crew. They were heroes to me and I hope the 10 year old kids are still able to see someone as a hero. I will now stand by for the requiste pummeling from the sophisticates that normally reply.
  38. Dom P from Ottawa, Canada writes: We can all stipulate on how Mats is really thinking using our "professional lives as comment posters on G&M", but this is really the best thing Sundin could say. It shows that he is extremely classy, loyal and a great leader in a mediocre team. Can you imagine the comments in here if he would have said that he thinks he should be traded to a cup contender for his own benefit and to help improve a team he's already given up on. My guess is it would be very bad considering people are questionning his skills and his heart with his current statement. I think we should comment on what he's saying instead of guessing what we think he is really thinking, and judging him against our own stipulations. Mats is a great hockey player and human being and I will respect any decision he makes with our lame MLSE ownership. I do agree that although I would hate to see him in any other jersey than a Leafs one... he is our only option at really rebuilding. I look forward to see how this will roll out. Go leafs!
  39. Paul I from Rochester NY, United States writes: Dom P from Ottawa- You are the man! Nice job.
  40. asdf asdf from Canada writes: I can't believe some of these comments. Some people are turning on Mats because he DOESNT want to leave Toronto? It's a sad day when loyalty causes a loss of respect.
  41. Dom P from Ottawa, Canada writes: Paul I from Rochester NY: Thank you for your smart, non judgmental, "trying to out-wit others" comment... I don't see to many of them here.
  42. Bored Worker from Woodstock, Canada writes: I wish the Leafs would hurry up and deal Mats so I stop wasting time at work responding to Sundin trade rumor articles...
    TRADE HIM! I hope Ferguson can pull the trigger on a REAL trade that benefits the leafs, but tragically I doubt that will happen. They'll probably get a couple of no names and low drafts and then they'll overpay for Mats again next year...If he wants to come back after playing for a real competitor with real linemates.
    Could you imagine Sundin on a line with Crosby and Malikin? WOW! In the Pens could get a decent goalie, they could win with those elements...
  43. A C from Canada writes: Mats is staying because Mats is a real Leaf fan, one that knows that even if the leafs never win another cup, its an honour to play in Toronto and to be the darling captain of one of the great hockey franchises. That's what being a real fan is all about - knowing that even if your team never wins, you'll still be a fan forever. Hockey clubs originated as a source of pride for their local community. People who were born in Toronto and move all over the world are still proud of where they came from. There really isnt anything that defines this city more than the Leafs. It pains me when people suddenly become pittsburgh fans because they have sydney crosby, or become mighty ducks fans because they most recently won the cup.

    Good on Mats for beng such a good guy to Toronto.
  44. Nick Wilson from Toronto, Canada writes: Sundin clearly is not a winner. A great player for sure but not a winner. He is just content to play 81 regular games a year and pick-up 85 points a year without too much efforts. Why would he bother playing additional games in the playoffs if it doesn't add a penny on his paycheque ? The Maple Leafs are the perfect fit for him.
  45. Super Troll from Canada writes: Bored Worker- exactly- assuming Sundown does get traded, why would he want to come back to the circus that is Toronto after playing for a real team... if he gets traded he won't be back.
  46. Frank Godfrey from Canada writes: Mats is not only a great player, he is also quite astute. Why would any athlete of his stature wish to leave a great city like Toronto.
  47. Spencer C from Canada writes: Sundin is way too classy to be a Maple Leaf.

    Mats come to Ottawa and win a Cup, you can even parade it down Yonge St. afterwards!
  48. Chris Eaton from Fredericton, NB, writes: Considering how JFJ has been victimized in his previous deals, does anybody really think he can get more then a case of Blue and a Zamboni driver for Sundin?

    Sundin has real trade value on the market and would be an asset to a lot of teams, but JFJ is not the guy you want trying to make the best deal possible.
  49. Another Canadian Voice from Ottawa, Canada writes: Sundin's value won't peak until the week of the trade deadline. No moves and no comments from head office until then, so the rest is just speculation... the bread and butter of the G&M Sports hockey section most days.

    hurray
  50. glib gal from Ottawa, Canada writes: I'd love to see him here in Ottawa...we already know he can play well with Alfie and he is definitely is a top 6 forward. The Laff's defence needs help, so I'd be glad to offer up Redden;-)
  51. P P from Canada writes: Nick Wilson you are idiot, Sundin is a great player who wants to win and for sure he doesn't play just for a paycheck. Do you really think he needs the $$$$$$$$$$. Get with it.
  52. Drew Diggs from Toronto, Canada writes: Dom P has the post of the day! He says it all, I think everyone should read it and realize how ignorant they are being. Mats gets criticized for everything he does. Damned if does and damned if he dosn't......
  53. Myles Leach from Canada writes: Thank you Paul I from Rochester, and a big "Hear! Hear!" Mats Sundin is an exemplar of what a professional athlete ought to be. He quietly goes about his business, playing hard every night, leading, not with his lip, but by his example. His conduct on and off the ice has been, and continues to be a credit to the Maple Leaf franchise and to the City of Toronto, his adopted home.
    I also grew up in Toronto in the sixties. I was seven when they last won the Cup. I've waited a long time for its return. If winning really was everything how would I justify the past forty years? For me it is more than that. It is pride of place; a home-town thing. Its about our hopes and our dreams. That proud tradition has never been better represented than when Mats Sundin dons that sweater every night.
    So let's do this. Put away the cynicism and applaud a great Leaf captain and a "stand-up guy". Let's return a little of the loyalty that he has shown to us, by taking him at his word.
    Thanks again, Paul I, Dom P, and AC
  54. Devil Bud from shwa', Canada writes: Haha....Sundin in Ottawa? Even if the Leafs are out of contention at the deadline, which hopefully they won't be, what could/would Ottawa have to offer? Ottawa has nothing that they are willing to give up that Toronto needs. In addition, second-fiddle to Alfredsson? Hmmmm....#1 on Sweden, but #2 with another team with Alfie? I am not saying that Alfie isn't a great player, but a Mats he is not. The ability to play with Spezza and Heatley, et al. has inflated his value, perhaps over-inflated. Which is why Sundin is #1 when it comes to Swedish players in International Tournaments. Sorry for the douse of reality, but it is what it is. I would argue that Sundin would never agree to a trade to Ottawa for many other reasons as well. As for Sundin agreeing to a trade to other contenders, I would imagine that he would weigh such options if they came about based on who he went to and what role he would play. You are not talking about your typical rental player in this situation. You are talking about a dominant player that allows a whole team to jump on his back that can actually do it all. In addition, like such players as Smyth, he will carry quite a price tag, as you are asking the face of a franchise to leave. Can Ferguson make such a deal? I hope not, because I would rather see the Leafs make the playoffs....in 8th.
  55. Drew Diggs from Toronto, Canada writes: Picture this:
    Mats Sundin hoisting the cup in a San Jose Sharks uniform.......what a terrible site. I cannot stand the thought of Mats playing anywhere else and any true Leaf fan would agree with me.
  56. R A from Canada writes: Drew Diggs..."I cannot stand the thought of Mats playing anywhere else and any true Leaf fan would agree with me. "

    I am a big fan of Sundin and for his sake I would love to see him get traded to a cup contender (other than Ottawa) and see him win - unfortunately it aint gonna happen (winning the cup) in TO for some time.
  57. m Perrin from Calgary, Canada writes: I've said it before, trade those two meathead russians and a bag of pucks for a winner like Shannihan and watch the team's fortunes take a turn to the positive side of the ledger. Throw in Raycroft for free, the guy couln't stop a beach ball volleyed by a 2 year old.
  58. Super Troll from Canada writes: Devil Dud- who says Ottawa has to offer anything? It's JFJ with his finger on the trigger, remember?
  59. Tim Richards from Canada writes: Can GM's and coaches be traded at the deadline.............
  60. Kevin Dunphy from Moncton, Canada writes: Just wonderful. Guy is 36 years old, European, playing for Toronto who is celebrating 40 years without the cup, and he just wants to quietly earn his 5 million and play for a couple more years. Of course he wants to stay in Toronto. No pressure that can't be blamed on others and past history. Sure he looks and appears classy... when compared to his teammates. Let him stay in Toronto.... rather that screw up as an uncompassionate and unfocused rental player. The game is about winning the CUP!
  61. Dom P from Ottawa, Canada writes: m Perrin from Calgary: What meatball russians are you referring to? Leafs do not have Russians on their roster...
  62. Super Troll from Canada writes: Nancy Drew you're a tool. You want to keep Sundown and keep floundering away in 11th place next season too- good call.

    Yep, you're a true Leaf fan alright.
  63. Super Troll from Canada writes: Dom- I think he's talking about Borat and the Donkey.
  64. Drew Diggs from Toronto, Canada writes: Troll, all I said was that it would be a terrible site to me and many Leaf fans. Do you wanna see Alfie hoist the cup wearing a Red Wings uniform??? Bottom line is I think Mats should be traded but I pray that he comes back the next year and I don't wanna see him win a cup as a rental player. Kind of selfish of me but whatever, I just dont wanna see it.
  65. Peter Hells from Oakville, Canada writes:

    Well...finally the Alfie vs Sundin thing is over...Alfie is a starter in the All Star game and has more points.

    McGuire was on the radio this morning and he said Toronto has absolutely nothing coming up from the minors...this team is done for a few years.

    Mats needs to leave so T.O can at least get some talent into its line up
  66. Super Troll from Canada writes: Sundin wears Alfie pyjamas.
  67. Pat Billings from CDN, Canada writes: As a leaf, Sundin probably forgot what the playoffs are like. It's a grueling 2-month tournament. I'm not sure he can handle it. It sounds like he's not up for it.

    Anybody notice, that he gets the hell out of dodge 1 or 2 day after the season is over and goes travels around Europe, playing golf. He usually comes back a few days before training camp. That's how much he loves Toronto.
  68. m Perrin from Calgary, Canada writes: Sorry Dom P, I meant Poni and Antro and the term was MEATHEADS, I actually like meatballs. You're right , they may be from the former Soviet block but not russian. No disrespect was intended to any Russian living or dead. As a matter of fact , trade them for a Frolov, or a Markov or a Federov or a bowl of borsht and a 40 of Shmirnov.
  69. W R from Starford, PE, Canada writes: Mats is a good player and that's about it. His points total only looks good because he has lasted so long and he has lasted so long because he's been lucky enough to be with a team/management that doesn't care. With any other club he'd have been traded long ago.

    I agree with the writers who say he doesn't have the burning desire to win the Stanley Cup. Some nights he's invisible out there. As for those who say he has never been given anyone to play with, it is the mark of a good player that he elevates the play of even mediocre team mates. Gretzsky did this repeatedly for his linemates as did Lemieux. Sundin doesn't. I say trade him now. As long as he is here there is no chance of winning the cup. He is a loser.
  70. R A from Canada writes: Gee Pat Billings...the guy has millions of dollars and can travel the world during the off-season and play golf ORRRR he can spend the summer in Toronto. Yep, he obviously hates Toronto...lol.
  71. John Mac Isaac from London, writes: Sundin prefers Toronto because he does not like to play without the pay.
    Sundin is sabotaging any chance Toronto has of maximizing his trade value because Sundin wants to play 82 games a year and stretch out his career as long as he can.
    Just waiting for the final twenty or so games where Matt shuts it down for fear of making the playoffs.
  72. Drew Diggs from Toronto, Canada writes: Ya Mats is a loser all right and he is worth nothing in the playoffs! Oh and all his points were amassed only because he has had a long career. Also, he only gets points early in the season and then shuts it down near playoff time. WOW! Some of the posters on here are so ignorant and just plain dumb. If Sundin is traded, watch and see what the Leafs recieve in return. Yup but he's worthless and loser just don't tell that to all the GM's in the league that will be salavating to get him.
  73. Peter Hells from Oakville, Canada writes:

    Drew,

    what does salavating mean?

    Oh yeah and Drew...guess we now no who wins the Alfie vs Sundin thing!

    All Star Alfie!

    Trade bait Sundin!
  74. Super Troll from Canada writes: Nancy Drew- is Sundown your boyfriend or something? Why so sensitive?

    1) Points amassed because he's had a long (and injury-free) career- yup

    2) Disappears late in the season (case in point- last year)- yup

    Sundown doesn't even have a Conference Championship.

    Outside of the Big Joke nobody thinks he's anything special.

    Sundown wears Alfie pyjamas.
  75. Super Troll from Canada writes: So Nancy Drew finally agrees that Alfie is heads & shoulders the better player and captain over Sundown. Glad we're finally all in agreement.
  76. Drew Diggs from Toronto, Canada writes: Ever heard of a typo?
    Ya Alfie is wayyyyyyy better, talk to me at the end of both careers and we will see who is higher in the points list. Oh and I guess Heatley and Spezza have nothing to do with it. Interesting how the Sens and Alfie have had their success increase substantially since that line was created.
  77. Jeffrey Irwin from Lawrence, KS, Canada writes: Sundin just does not care about winning. He takes his money and heads back to sweden ASAP ...the sooner the "Laughs" are out of the playoffs the better for him. If he cared about the team, he would let them trade him, let the team get a bunch of draft picks/young players, and then he could come back next year.
  78. Devil Bud from shwa', Canada writes: Don't worry Drew, as we have seen on all the Leafs threads throughout the season, when it comes to talking about Sundin, people are very shortsighted. They can't see through their "Sens Goggles". The old cliche of great players make mediocre players around them better? Come on now...Gretzky? Lemieux? Two of the greatest players of all time, which should never be a comparator unless we are discussing something like, oh lets see, who are the greatest players of all time? Just to throw it out there, because I know you're all out there, Trolls, waiting to pounce on Leafs' fans....Alfie was nothing special before Heatley and Spezza. His playoff stats, leadership and play were a joke as well. Now, who raised who's game? I think that an easy argument could be made for Alfie being the one to benefit from the play of others. As for Sundin, he wouldn't even know what it's like to play with a Heatley or Spezza. He is counted on to be Sundin/Heatley/Spezza all rolled into one. For the Trolls, watch games before you say ridiculous, ignorant drivel. Sundin has carried this team for years. Come playoffs, I'm sure the Sens fans dread Sundin. I remember, well, a couple of Sens goalies that have dropped a deuce or two once Sundin lets the slapshot go from the top of the circle. But ya, Sundin plays for the cheque. Oh wait, does Sundin get paid for the World Championships, Olympics, World Cups, etc. Give it a rest. Those who would say such a thing have never played the game. If you play, then you know that the Cup is the #1 goal and unlike Alfie, Sundin has refused to quit whether its getting stitches in between shifts or playing with broken bones.
  79. Drew Diggs from Toronto, Canada writes: Where was Alfie during the 4 first round playoff exits handed to him during the playoffs??? I remember, he was busy predicting wins that never materialized. lol. Stupid Sens fans, take a look in the mirror before you bash the Leaf captain. Your captain has had his fare share of uninspired moments. Its pretty sad that you have to come onto Leaf threads and bash the Leafs and their all-star captain in order to feel some relief for all that resentment that is still stored up inside you.
  80. James P from Canada writes: All class.
  81. Clark The Mighty from Canada writes: Sundin = over-rated.

    Toronto loves Politically correct Euro's.
  82. Neil no more last name from Canada writes: 2) Disappears late in the season (case in point- last year)- yup I can point to several seasons where your boy Alfie tunred ghost in the Playoffs. guess that means he disappears in the playoffs, right? Also, comparisons to Gretzky and Lemiuex elevating their lteammates play or whatever...Messier and Coffey Hall of Famers in their own right Jagr and Francis Hall of Famers in their own right And the list goes on for the Pens and Oiler's dynasty years Gretzky couldn't win the cup by himself with a Robataille, Blake, and an aging Jarri Kurri on his team in LA. How MAts is expected to pull it off with "uh oh" McCabe, and Antropov and Pony on his line is beyond me. I'm sure Jonas Hoglund will get his due consideration for the Hall of Fame in a few years (sarcasm) I've said it before, and I will say it again...Mats Is the All-Time Leader in Overtime goals, and is right up there in career GWG. They don't call him Captian Clutch because he crumbles when the going gets tough. As far as trading Mats, and his comments regarding such...He'll never come right out to the media, 2 months b4 the trade deadline, and say that he'll consider a trade...too much of a team player to break down his team's confidence like that. The other GM's in the league know JFJ is "gullable" (to be nice) - he's not the guy to swing this deal. Here's to hoping Mats ends up in Vancouver or Detroit. PS the only thing I will ever agree with Super troll on is the fact that Mats may not want to return to TML after a taste of the good life somewhere else.
  83. Pat Billings from CDN, Canada writes: Sundin is like Cujo, he's never won anything (or even close) in the NHL. No awards, no championships, nothing, even though he played on some of the highest-payroll teams.

    He hasn't been in the playoffs since 2004. Before giving up the farm for him, I would be worried whether or not he can physically handle 2 month of playoffs.
  84. JM Work from Canada writes: As much as Sundin says the wants to stay a Leaf, he is going to demand market value for his contract. There is teams out there who would pay big dollars to have Sundin whether the team needs a player to build around or needs the final piece of the puzzle to put a winner together.

    As nice as it would be to see Sundin retire in a Leaf uniform, do the Leafs need the burden of an aging Sundin with a huge contract for the next few years?

    Can the Leafs build a winner around Sundin? Can they build a winner in spite of Sundin and the potential hit his contract will have against the salary cap?

    We'll see how much Sundin wants to stay a Leaf when it comes down to crunch time in contract negotiations.

    Who is negotiating the contract as well? Is JFJ even in the room or is just the big wigs from MLSE?
  85. Bruce Spence from Toronto, Canada writes: I'd much rather have the class & intelligence of a player like Sundin, Sittler, Dionne, et al, ... and never win a Stanley Cup .... than be a rental player or a passenger on a Stanley Cup winner who contributes very little to the championship. There are numerous players throughout history who don't deserve a Stanley Cup. They're just passengers who are simply lucky to be on a winning team. It doesn't make them "winners". Just because you're on a winning team doesn't mean you're not a loser.
    Likewise, there are numerous "character" players like Sundin & Sittler who don't win championships, but deserve to. They are the real winners.
    It's too bad that the trolls, Super-trolls, & hockey morons don't recognize that.
  86. Howard Sean from writes: Howard C,

    The reality of it is that Mats is the only one on that team deserving of a C on his chest.

    Second, I think you are confusing something called loyalty for a lack of desire. No one in the leafs organization wants to win as bad as Sundin and that is the problem, not Mats. Just because he doesn't want to become mercenary doesn't mean he doesn't want to win the cup.

    Really if anything the Maple Leafs organization should be ashamed because they have obviously some how brain washed him to get him to stay so long.
  87. Bergeil DeBungie from Victoria, Canada writes: Super Troll wins for coolest name on G&M ever!

    As for Sundin and the Laffs...damned if you do damned if you don't!
  88. Howard Young from Canada writes: Just for the record for those who don't think that players receive playoff money. They do, it's in the NHLPA collective agreement. Plus there are players who receive incentive bonuses. I didn't know this but I was watching an interview with Brian Burke lastnight and he mentioned that anyone over 36 in the league is entitled to a formalized bonus structure that does not count towards the team's salary and overall cap limit.

    I agree that publicly, Sundin cannot say anything but what he said. However, behind close doors it would not be surprising if was kicking around the idea of waiving his no trade clause if he was going to be moved to a cup contender.
  89. Waterloo Al from My Office, Canada writes: It was the best of times, it was the worst of times .... Best - seeing a player I admire, respect, and value don another jersey Worst - seeing a player I admire, respect, and value don another jersey Let me not be my sarcastic self for a moment. Even the biggest Leaf lovers (me) and the Biggest Leaf Haters (plenty regulars on this blog) have to agree that Mats is having a big year and is very valuable. Let's ignore what he has or hasn't won. Let's ignore that for years he has centered wingers that do indeed remind one of heavy bookends. Let's not ignore loyalty, consistency, leadership, decorum, professionalism in the face in mgmt incompetency. In the end I'll bet that Mats Sundin does what's best for the "organization" (a contradiction in terms if there ever was one with the Leafs). He'll go, play well, reap dividends and give the Leafs a fair shot to re-sign at a reasonable cost. #13 will be retired. Count on it. Back to sarcasm with a hint of irony ... Darcy - please play better so someone will take you (for nada) Jason - please play worse (so the Leafs can be sure to move Mats). Your passes may be worse that your shots - but we might never know. Thomas - Please stop opening every sentence with - Oh For Sure. Andrew - please play better when you play so you can be packaged with Darcy Duck. Kyle - Please just play According to Waterloo Al-anis It's like 10,000 dekes when all you need is a shoot out shot It's a free ride to the draft lottery when you've already played It's the good advice JFJ that you just didn't take Who would have thought - it figures
  90. Ryan M from Ottawa, Canada writes: I might be a bit late in joining this discussion, if you can call it that, but I'll say this: I'm a Sens fan, and obviously detest the leafs. That said, Sundin is an incredible player. And let me address the following ciriticism he's faced from some posters on this thread: Lack of heart - what a ridiculous argument. Night in and night out, he is the only leaf on the ice to show heart. How many clutch goals has he scored? And he currently has no linemates, and hasn't had any quality linemates for a few years now. Traveling during the offseason - why wouldn't you? Just because he visits family and friends in Sweden and then takes some incredible trips during the season doesn't mean he dislikes Toronto. Sorry to the folks who criticize him for this, but there is more to the world than the GTA. Shocking, I know. You would all do the same if you had the kind of money a professional athlete makes (I would hope). Overpaid - at 5.5 million, I'd say he's actually pretty cheap. Look at some other players, on the leafs and throughout the league, who make more than that and contribute half as much. Pretty good bargain, if you ask me. lack of leadership - see my comment on lack of heart. He's the only guy on that team who leads by example and who faces up to the media. He owns up to the losses...maybe Maurice could take a lesson from him. Cheers.
  91. Ryan M from Ottawa, Canada writes: My apologies for the pisspoor spacing. Guess I took too long writing my previous post.
  92. Waterloo Al from My Office, Canada writes: You are a gentleman Ryan M. My hats off to your objectivity.

    PS .. I'd take Alfie - who I can no longer call Crusty - any day.

    Paul is perhaps the most media savvy coach in the league and has done a masterful job of keeping the most of the flies off his carcass. No much else though I'm sad to say. I'd like him at my playoff pool draft. He'd be fun the "hang" with. He'll catch on with another team.
  93. W R from Canada writes: Dan Vanman writes: Sundin WANTS to win badly. You can see it in his eyes, his demeanour as he patiently explains to the media how they blew another one.

    If Sundin really wanted to win badly he would not patiently explain to the media how they blew another one. He would show his disgust by refusing to talk to the press. We've all seen him smiling on the bench late in the game as the Leafs are about to go down again and again. His demeanour, as you call it, is that of a loser. Losers always have "explanations" for losing. That's what sets them apart from winners.
  94. Istvan Bombasto from Canada writes: Bergeil DeBungie from Victoria, Canada writes: Super Troll wins for coolest name on G&M ever!

    When your name is Bergeil Debungie, EVERY name is cooler than yours.
  95. Ryan M from Ottawa, Canada writes: W R, not sure what point you're trying to make. Should Sundin pout and refuse to talk to the media? Would that make him a better leader, or show his desire to win even more? Not sure I understand that logic.

    As I see it, Sundin is actually showing some class by talking to the media and giving yes, explanations, as to why they lost. Explanations can be different from excuses - Sundin almost always fully recognizes that they were outworked, outplayed, outskated, etc. He expects more from his team.

    Just because he doesn't throw a tantrum and not talk to the press does not mean he doesn't want to win. Would you really expect that of any captain? Not me.
  96. JM Work from Canada writes: Bruce, Most athletes play sports in order to compete and win. Those that dont, play the game for the sake of a paycheck. Sundin looks like he likes to compete and plays to win. The career of a hockey player is short and Sundin is nearing the end of his. As classy as he is, do you believe he is getting satisfaction playing for a team that loses year after year. Do you think he doesnt see the ineptness of management and owners? You dont think it gets frustrating for him if he gives it everything hes got in an attempt to win and then the the like of JFJ and Peddie cant get anything done right? Do you think Sundin will take a discount knowing that JFJ and Peddie will go overpay another mediocre player? Bruce Spence from Toronto, Canada writes: I'd much rather have the class & intelligence of a player like Sundin, Sittler, Dionne, et al, ... and never win a Stanley Cup .... than be a rental player or a passenger on a Stanley Cup winner who contributes very little to the championship. There are numerous players throughout history who don't deserve a Stanley Cup. They're just passengers who are simply lucky to be on a winning team. It doesn't make them "winners". Just because you're on a winning team doesn't mean you're not a loser. Likewise, there are numerous "character" players like Sundin & Sittler who don't win championships, but deserve to. They are the real winners. It's too bad that the trolls, Super-trolls, & hockey morons don't recognize that.
  97. Super Troll from Canada writes: Nancy you sound like you want to bend Sundown over a chair. I'll take Alfie any day- at least he's actually BEEN to the Cup finals.

    Re: the All Star comments- who's starting this year, who's not? 'N