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Olympic dreams of female ski jumpers take flight

PATRICK BRETHOUR

From Monday's Globe and Mail

Latest comment posted at 6:52 AM EDT 07/01/08

IOC under growing pressure to allow participation in 2010 Winter Games ...Read the full article

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  1. Mr. Justice from Canada writes: Why are the various events in the Summer and Winter Olympics segregated by gender ? Anybody know ?
  2. Gerry Pankhurst from Westport Ontario, Canada writes: It's not clear to me. Do the females simply seek participation on the ski jumping team or, is my understanding correct, that they want to be segregated. If the former, I am for it. If the latter I wonder what has happened to the much vaunted, very often convenient, matter of equality. I'm no ski jumper but I wonder what difference gender makes in that pursuit.
  3. andrei de souza from Toronto, Canada writes: The government simply needs to insist that women be allowed to compete. It should not be negotiable. It's amazing that we're still dealing with this. It's embarrassing that we still are.
  4. Mr. Justice from Canada writes: Why not just eliminate competition categories based on gender ? THAT way, we could concentrate on . . . who is the best athlete, no matter what the gender. Oh, wait . . . that makes too much sense. SORRY !
  5. Joe Blow from Canada writes: We should eliminate ski jumping for both genders and concentrate on real sports. Seriously, other than Olympic athletes, how many people ski jump?

    The modern Olympics is rife with idiotic sports. Synchronized diving anyone????
  6. J. Bergin from Canada writes: According to the IOC, women's ski jumping has not evolved enough throughout the world to qualify as an Olympic sport and neither has women's hockey.
  7. Hugh McNeil from Canada writes: Mr Justice from Canada asks why the events are segregated between men and women. A simple look at results in most categories answers that question, as they indicate women would be coming in dead last in almost all events if forced to compete directly against men. Men and women are built differently. I know that women can have the same drive that the most competitive of men have, but that doesn't help the strongest woman in the world beat the five hundredth strongest man in the world. This isn't mysogynist, it is the simple reality of the physical differences between men and women. I don't know anything about ski jumping, but I'm willing to bet that even here, men would have a decided advantage, just because men are built bigger than women, have more mass, and therefore have more momentum going off the lip of the jump. I'm actually surprised to learn that women haven't been included in ski jumping in the past, and I am wondering if it is because there isn't a developed women's ski jumping circuit already? I understand that for a sport to be included in the Olympics, there has to be a large network of national bodies for the event already in place, with a recognized standard for competitions (otherwise, how are Olympic judges and referees chosen?). Having said this, I support strongly the wish of these young women to be permitted to compete in the 2010 olympics, should they be up to corresponding standards, of course.
  8. CHP My vote from Yahooma, Canada writes: Mr. Justice from Canada writes: Why not just eliminate competition categories based on gender ? THAT way, we could concentrate on . . . who is the best athlete, no matter what the gender. Oh, wait . . . that makes too much sense. SORRY !

    Oh wait, Mr Justice just stumbled upon the obvious, however UNPC reality that is 'there's a difference between Male and Female.' Wow, I wonder if that will even get past the G&M filter? It's only obvious that ALL events need to be segregated between genders because GENERALLY speaking, the stronger (phyisically) sex will win most events...
  9. DC Lee from Canada writes: The IOC reviewed in 2006 an initial request to include women's ski jumping in the 2010 games. The request was denied since the number of female participants in ski jumping is expectionally small and does not include representation from a wide degree of countries - i.e. the small number of participants are only from a few countries meaning that the level of competition is not sufficient to warrant olympic participation. The numbers have not increased since 2006; so I am not sure what would grounds exist to reverse the initial decision.

    Men's ski jumping is slighlty esoteric, but is quite popular in Scandinavia and has a fairly large pool of participants at the elite level from a diverse number of countries to ensure high level of competition - women's ski jumping cannot do say the same thing at this time.
  10. Alistair McLaughlin from Canada writes: De-segregate the events? Um, those of you who favour such a thing must also favour eliminating women from the Olympics altogether. I doubt any women would be able to compete in any of the sports against male athletes. This is a biological reality - it has nothing to do with discrimination. By the way, the IOC has the right to decide if a sport belongs in the Olympics, for either gender. That's why we don't see men's synchonized swimming or men's rythmic gymnastics. (Not that those are real sports anyway, but that's a different issue.)
  11. J. Bergin from Canada writes: This is typical Canadian, we are hosting the 2010 Olympics and thus want to win Gold, so we push for sports that only we can win....Women's Ski Jumping and Women's Hockey.
  12. CHP My vote from Yahooma, Canada writes: I vote Scream Jerry for the funniest post of 08!
  13. Jenn . from Canada writes: Scream Jerry from Canada writes: Hmmmmm. Why not just have a Women's Olympics? They can play whatever sports they want to play with no discrimination at all. 100 metre vacuuming, speed dish-washing, ringette, softball, laundry, and ski jumping.

    Yeah... vacuuming, dish-washing, laundry... it's all just women's work, isn't it Jerry. My poor little dish-panned mind just boggles in the face of your superior male logic.
  14. Jasper the Black Lab from Vancouver and Elsewhere, Canada writes: It equally important to get synchonized swimming and rythmic gymnastics OUT of the Olympics as it is to get Women's ski jumping IN.
  15. Garry C from Toronto, Canada writes: I'm surprised this even needs to be debated. What's the problem with having women participate in this event? Am I missing something?
  16. Kevin Dooley from Canada writes: There are lots of silly sports in the Olympics - what athletic ability is required for any of the shooting or archery events - why not bring it up to date and include attack helicopter duels? Why are there so many different swimming events that are all so closely related that one person can get so many medals (answer: because they aren't distinct events and shouldn't have distinct medals)? What's synchronized diving? Who cares about handball, badminton and table tennis?

    Surely all of these events are there purely because one or two countries are good at them and they want to boost their guaranteed medal counts. So, with that in mind, why can't Canada have women's hockey? At least it's an actual sport.
  17. Not right or left from Canada writes: Why isn't there any women ski jumping events in the Olympics. It doesn't make any sense to me.
  18. Not right or left from Canada writes: Scream Jerry from Canada writes: 'Hmmmmm. Why not just have a Women's Olympics? They can play whatever sports they want to play with no discrimination at all. 100 metre vacuuming, speed dish-washing, ringette, softball, laundry, and ski jumping.'

    Now Jerry don't be so sexist. I'm a man and I just did the dishes so why shouldn't men compete in the speed dish-washing. I bet I would win.
  19. Robert von from Calgary, writes: What gets me is that Canada is spending hundreds on millions of dollars on a sport which only a handful of amateur athletes participate in. How many ski jumpers, boblsledders, skeleton exist in Canada?
  20. Joe Blow from Canada writes: Robert von from Calgary, writes: What gets me is that Canada is spending hundreds on millions of dollars on a sport which only a handful of amateur athletes participate in.

    You are absolutely correct. Now imagine how many skating rinks and sports fields we could build for the same amount of money. I'd much rather my taxes go towards getting average children in-shape and turned on to sport than a few ski jumpers.
  21. G len from Halifax, Canada writes: With over 1140 men registered in Ski jumping internationally and only 135 females, I wonder why it isn't going to be an Olympic sport. Canada has 26 males registered and 5 women. It has nothing to do with physical ability or determination, but it is the International Olympic commitee, not the 'A few of us got together' Olympic committee.
  22. Gerry Pankhurst from Westport Ontario, Canada writes: There are certain sports where gender counts because of relative strength between the sexes yet the women keep harping about equality.

    Aside from the olympics, and sports where strength and stamina are a factor. The Olympics aside, why can't they compete equally with men in such things as: curling, bowling, chess, table tennis, archery, shooting, darts, quoits, bridge and other card games, gambling generally, and many more?

    Whether they like it not, women are different and I say vive la difference.
  23. Stewed Ham from Canada writes: Mr Justice, in suggesting that sports should be gender neutral I think you are confusing sports with your sex life.
  24. B H from Toronto, Canada writes: 'Glen from Halifax, Canada writes: With over 1140 men registered in Ski jumping internationally and only 135 females, I wonder why it isn't going to be an Olympic sport. Canada has 26 males registered and 5 women. It has nothing to do with physical ability or determination, but it is the International Olympic commitee, not the 'A few of us got together' Olympic committee.' I think the reason is as simple as that, and is what they mean by the sport not being up to the standards -- not enough participants for true competition. BUT, I do wonder in some cases, just as a thought, how much of that is circular? I mean, isn't the existance of prestigious competitions one of the major motivators that inspires determined ambitious people to get into these sports in the first place?
  25. Mr. Justice from Canada writes: Say all the Politically Correct stuff you want, folks. The fact remains: There is NO basis for separate categories for athletic performance based on gender: NONE. The contention (often heard) that 'if gender categories are eliminated, then men will automatically win most events' is just sexist and demeaning to women, plain and simple.
  26. snow lander from Canada writes: Not Right or Left - I would absolutely cream you in the speed dishing washing event. . . .if they don't have time penalties for stuff left stuck to plates.

    : )

    Anyway i always figured the IOC only add sports they are able to 'sell'.
  27. L. W. from Greener Pastures, Canada writes: The current record holder on the Whistler jump is female.
    By the way, the article was about womens ski jump events, not about wpmen competing in the men' events.
  28. leo bloom from radisson, sask,, Canada writes: I'm with Robert von on this one. Why should we spend bags and bags of money (oh yes we'll have to!) to produce a female Horst Bulau? I think the money for this, and most Olympic events is just cashola flushed down the drain. And what if? What if we can produce a ski-jumper, male or female, that can actually medal at the games? Big wow,eh! I don't get the logic. Yes, yes, we've a piss-poor record in social and foriegn affairs, yes, yes, our health care system is a sinking stone and education is a pale ghost but hey! We had a bronze medal once in ski-jumping! Same as I don't get the need to spend millions of loonies and mucho focus on our swim team in the hopes that one might upset an Aussie at the next summer games...who cares? In the big picture of things, who besides the sports lobby groups and the bureaucrats who oversee Canadian sports programs, cares that we had a silver medalist in anything?
  29. L. W. from Greener Pastures, Canada writes: I am fast becoming the typo king.
  30. B.C. Expat from Ottawa, NCR, Canada writes: Kevin Dooley from Canada writes: There are lots of silly sports in the Olympics - what athletic ability is required for any of the shooting or archery events - why not bring it up to date and include attack helicopter duels?

    See, I don't really watch the Olympics -- summer or winter -- but if there were attack helicopter duels, I think I would.
  31. Alistair McLaughlin from Canada writes: Mr. Justice, do you really think that women could compete with men in any sport? Please tell me you aren't that stupid. It would be more sexist and demeaning to women if we were to make them compete against a gender which is far better equipped for nearly any activity that requires speed and strength, thus shutting them out of competition altogether as they fail to qualify.
  32. Alistair McLaughlin from Canada writes: Now, duelling attack helicopters on the other hand - THERE'S a gender neutral sport I can get behind.
  33. J. Bergin from Canada writes: Alistair McLaughlin you are right to a point, however, I don't see why there should be a male and female division for curling and probably a few other events which I cannot think of at the moment.
  34. leo bloom from radisson, sask,, Canada writes: Curling? there's another one...why not Olympic darts or Olympic ski-dooing? Faster, higher, stronger, goofier...
  35. m mac from Canada writes: Just give the female jumpers the money they would have received if allowed to compete and send them home. Going to the Human Rights Commission to sue Canada over the decision made by the IOC is ridiculous and just a cash grab. Canada had better be careful. If the UN or any other organization we pay yearly dues to reject anything that someone in Canada feels is their right under the Charter now has grounds to go to HRC. That means any monies given to the UN or any other Organization is now up for grabs by anyone who wishes to make a complaint. I hope an appeal is made to the courts. Most people understand that there are times when gender separation is required, sports at the elite level being one, and see no problem with it.
  36. Sam Patel from West Vancouver, Canada writes: That there is no equity (and no valid reason for gender inequality) in this case is reprehensible. The IOC has provided no reason why women cannot compete other than "women are no good at it." Thats not much of a reason. Let them compete and within a few years you will have olympic quality female ski-jumpers.

    However, suing the Canadian government on the basis that it participates in the olympics/contributes money towards the olympics/and indeed is hosting the upcoming winter olympics is ridiculous and selfish. The argument presupposes that Canada should not participate at all unless this one group's valid complaint is addressed. And by "canada not participating" I do not mean some formless bureacratic notion of Canada...I mean hundreds of individual atheletes who have trained all of their lives to compete....which is exactly what this group wants to do. The "if I can't get my way the world should grind to a halt" mentality is a toxic one, no matter how valid your complaint is.
  37. r b from Calgary, Canada writes: Golly, those Olympics certainly have a lot of really neat-o "sports". And every single one of them has their own lobby group, paid for by your tax dollars, just to see that their ridiculously silly events are included in the quadrenniel cannon-ball throwin', spear-chuckin', glorified-tobaggan-runnin' enormous wastes of effort known as the Olympics. For a case study in what wasted tax dollars are, have a look at many of the legacy sports that consume millions of dollars: such as... luge. Ah yes, luge, that immensely popular winter pasttime, sliding down hill on your arse. Followed closely by skeleton, sliding downhill on your beer-gut. My-oh-my, such athleticism required. Lets see now, what about all those ski-and-shoot sports - now those are some real mass participation sports. And fencing. Mmmm-hmmm, to paraphrase the father of Fraser from the sitcom of the same name: "Imagine, all the little children, longing for a better life, armed with nothing but a foil and a dream". And we mustn't forget equestrian, oh no. Yes, there is a sport well within reach of the average Canuck. So by all means, lets bring the women-folk into ski jumping. Our hearts will soar and chests swell with pride when little Sally from East Tree Stump PQ hurtles herself into space and for that brief moment we will all cast ourselves back to our childhoods, when we too dreamed of casting off the shackles of gravity as a glorious ski jumper. You remember that don't you? Meanwhile, here in Calgary, kids get run off of soccer fields and ball diamonds that are overrun in weeds and pebbles, so a bunch of half drunken losers can play softball long into the night. Hey, they pay for the fields you know. Participaction indeed.
  38. Cameron Simms from Canada writes: Yes these women should be able to participate in the event ....

    However I find it strange that these and other women aren't standing up for the treatment and human rights of women around the world. Such as in Saudia Arabia or Afghanistan? Where is the out cry over gang rapes as punishment for victims?

    I guess as long as are females have every right and are happily skiing the slopes everythings is ok.
  39. Go Oilers Go! from Canada writes: I fully support allowing women to compete in ski jumping at the 2010 Olympics.

    However I believe the complaint by Ms. Willis stating "The facility constructed with financial support from the federal government essentially bears a 'Men Only' sign and we assert that such discrimination is contrary to the Canadian Human Rights Act" is without merit.

    The Federal gov't has not limited the participation of women at the facility. It is the IOC that has said women cannot compete at the facility during the 2010 Games.

    There is nothing to stop females from training at the facility once the games are completed which contradicts Ms. Willis' claim the facility bears a 'Men Only' sign.

    Ms. Willis' problem is with the IOC; not the Canadian Federal Gov't. Harper and the Conservatives have no power to tell the IOC what or what not to do.
  40. J. Bergin from Canada writes: Cameron Simms from Canada writes: Yes these women should be able to participate in the event ....

    However I find it strange that these and other women aren't standing up for the treatment and human rights of women around the world. Such as in Saudia Arabia or Afghanistan? Where is the out cry over gang rapes as punishment for victims?

    Cameron, try and stay focused......
  41. Go Oilers Go! from Canada writes: Mr. Justice from Canada writes: Why not just eliminate competition categories based on gender ? THAT way, we could concentrate on . . . who is the best athlete, no matter what the gender. Oh, wait . . . that makes too much sense. SORRY !

    That won't work and you know it; unless you support eliminating women from the Olympic Games.

    Following that policy you would never see a woman in pretty much any event.

    It's a simply matter of physiology; men are bigger, faster and stronger compared to women. Look at the results for any Olympic event. The results of the men in 99% of the events are far ahead of the women.

    I don't say this to be condescending; it's simply fact. The men's 100 m sprint gold medal will be won with a time around 9.8 sec; for the women they may not even break 11 sec. In fact the Women's Olympic 100 m gold medalist wouldn't even qualify to run in the men's event let alone compete.

    The other events are no different. Women are closing the gap; but they have a long way to go before they would be able to compete with the men.
  42. woof woof from Canada writes: Are they willing to jump naked? Oops
  43. Cameron Simms from Canada writes: Yes western women dream of sports and skiing, and other women dream about being aloud to drive a car or go to school. Yes well some women here spend all their energy trying to get on the slopes other women try and get basic human rights for themselves and their sisters.

    Why do Canadians and Canadian women not fighting harder for equality of those who have way less.
  44. Cameron Simms from Canada writes: J. Bergin.....yes go back to your sports, and fighting to get these poor hard done by women a spot at the olympics. Why don't you care about these women? Is it not true what I said?
  45. Cameron Simms from Canada writes: One dares to say that Canadian and Western women might be a little selfish and self-centered, when there are so many out there that have no human rights at all!!!
  46. Cameron Simms from Canada writes: Nearly have of all women in Arab world can't read...but boy oh boy can those canadian girls Ski!!!!!

    http://www.breitbart.com/article.phpid=080107195154.zz47kw4z&show_article=1
  47. harry carnie from Canada writes: Well.......................... hope you All ENJOY paying for the cost of the 2010 Olympics as much as you do posting here.

    Quebec just finished paying off the 1976 Olympics .. in 2007.

    Have FUN over the next 20 years, or so.
  48. J. Bergin from Canada writes: Cameron, try again and stay focused on the topic. Saving the world is another topic and another article.
  49. Cameron Simms from Canada writes: Hey J Bergmen... I saw a women driving a car today...that must really P!ss you off eh!!

    Keep on consuming yourself with important issues like this. I can see your point, as long as Canadian women have human rights no need to worry about anyone else, very Un-Canadian of you.
  50. Cameron Simms from Canada writes: J Bergmen I jsut think its funny that so many people would care about an issue like this when there are so many larger problems going on. THose should be thankful they can even raise their voices on this issue....if it were somewhere else they could be gang raped or burned for even suggesting such a topic. Stay focused J.B!!!
  51. J. Bergin from Canada writes: Cameron, this is the "Sports" section, so don't be surprised or upset that people are talking about sports in the "Sports" section. If you wish to speak about your topic go to the "World News" section. Now that should help you focus on the task at hand.
  52. harry carnie from Canada writes: J Bergin.........."focus on the task at hand"? ..those tight ski suits.

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